3 ms·

I agree with you in principle and I think that the EU is basically extorting American companies, but in your example all that information is stored in your phon

by lzooz 4y ago

I agree with you in principle and I think that the EU is basically extorting American companies, but in your example all that information is stored in your phone, while in this case the information is stored in Discord's servers.

Spivak 4y ago
Right which to me is a distinction without a difference. If you and me are both Gmail users and you send me an email then delete your account should Gmail have to reach into my inbox and delete your emails? They’re on Google’s servers after all.
- Tainnor 4y ago
  There is definitely a difference between PII data of different users being distributed rather randomly across personal devices vs. it being consolidated within a single company which can then proceed to use that data for all sorts of purposes you may or may not have agreed to.
- daveoc64 4y ago
  It's about technical capability. In this case, Discord is a very centralised service. They store all of the messages centrally, so can easily comply with the request. Other services like email may not be able to do that, so they could use that as a defence when asked why they aren't deleting all data.
- falcor84 4y ago
  There's a spectrum of things I can share with you over gmail. Currently, if I share an email with some formatted text and attachments up to 25MB, then it's yours to keep, but anything above 25MB is shared as a link to a Google Drive upload, which remains under my account, and I can always delete or modify. But I don't see any particular reason for where exactly the line between the two should be - why wouldn't it be that I could make anything I shared with you ephemeral, a-la Snapchat? And going back to email, it was actually MS Exchange who have supported the option to "Recall this message" [0] for many years, while gmail decided to not implement anything like that. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace-an-email-message-that-you-sent-35027f88-d655-4554-b4f8-6c0729a723a0 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace...
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Interesting; for me line seems fairly thick at "ownership" level (which just shows we may have different assumptions:) My thoughts: If it's in my inbox (whether on my physical phone, or hosted for me by a service provider), I own it and I get to control it regardless who sent it / how it got there (as long as other legal pre-requisites are met, i.e. not child porn etc) If it's in my outbox, and I want to delete my account, THOSE instances of those artifacts should be removed, whether from my physical phone or by the service provider hosting them for me. If I've sent them to others, fair game, they own THOSE instances; but I expect the service provider to remove, upon my request, the artifact instances I solely own.
rendaw 4y ago
Does GDPR distinguish these cases? Personal information is fine to keep on an individual's computer, but not on a company computer? What about personal cloud storage like Google Drive (company's servers, individual's data)?
Fnoord 4y ago
American companies are free to not do business within the EU. If they do, they must comply with the law. Same with USA, China, Russia, etc.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Yes but if the law was “Fuck You America Act: 5% of global revenue from US based companies goes to us because we can” then the US government might have opinions about that when it comes to trade negotiations. The question is whether this law is closer to fuck you than it is reasonable regulation of bad behavior.
- lzooz 4y ago
  What about users from the EU who want to use those services despite the EU not liking them? Fuck them, right?
- rubyist5eva 4y ago

by lzooz 4y ago

Spivak 4y ago

Right which to me is a distinction without a difference. If you and me are both Gmail users and you send me an email then delete your account should Gmail have to reach into my inbox and delete your emails? They’re on Google’s servers after all.

Tainnor 4y ago
There is definitely a difference between PII data of different users being distributed rather randomly across personal devices vs. it being consolidated within a single company which can then proceed to use that data for all sorts of purposes you may or may not have agreed to.
daveoc64 4y ago
It's about technical capability. In this case, Discord is a very centralised service. They store all of the messages centrally, so can easily comply with the request. Other services like email may not be able to do that, so they could use that as a defence when asked why they aren't deleting all data.
falcor84 4y ago
There's a spectrum of things I can share with you over gmail. Currently, if I share an email with some formatted text and attachments up to 25MB, then it's yours to keep, but anything above 25MB is shared as a link to a Google Drive upload, which remains under my account, and I can always delete or modify. But I don't see any particular reason for where exactly the line between the two should be - why wouldn't it be that I could make anything I shared with you ephemeral, a-la Snapchat? And going back to email, it was actually MS Exchange who have supported the option to "Recall this message" [0] for many years, while gmail decided to not implement anything like that. [0] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace-an-email-message-that-you-sent-35027f88-d655-4554-b4f8-6c0729a723a0 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/recall-or-replace...
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Interesting; for me line seems fairly thick at "ownership" level (which just shows we may have different assumptions:) My thoughts: If it's in my inbox (whether on my physical phone, or hosted for me by a service provider), I own it and I get to control it regardless who sent it / how it got there (as long as other legal pre-requisites are met, i.e. not child porn etc) If it's in my outbox, and I want to delete my account, THOSE instances of those artifacts should be removed, whether from my physical phone or by the service provider hosting them for me. If I've sent them to others, fair game, they own THOSE instances; but I expect the service provider to remove, upon my request, the artifact instances I solely own.

rendaw 4y ago

Does GDPR distinguish these cases? Personal information is fine to keep on an individual's computer, but not on a company computer? What about personal cloud storage like Google Drive (company's servers, individual's data)?

Fnoord 4y ago

American companies are free to not do business within the EU. If they do, they must comply with the law. Same with USA, China, Russia, etc.

Spivak 4y ago
Yes but if the law was “Fuck You America Act: 5% of global revenue from US based companies goes to us because we can” then the US government might have opinions about that when it comes to trade negotiations. The question is whether this law is closer to fuck you than it is reasonable regulation of bad behavior.
lzooz 4y ago
What about users from the EU who want to use those services despite the EU not liking them? Fuck them, right?
rubyist5eva 4y ago