7 ms·

Sensationalist heading. The guns are not robotic, only remote controlled and they "only fire sponge-tipped bullets and tear gas".

by macmac 4y ago

tyingq 4y ago
Fair enough that it's not robotic, but the idea of an unmanned sponge-bullet turret in my neighborhood that would fire without notice is pretty sensational anyway. For whoever it's shooting at, it has the same psychological effect as a robot shooting.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > the idea of an unmanned sponge-bullet turret in my neighborhood that would fire without notice is pretty sensational anyway Isn’t it objectively better than lethally-armed soldiers?
  - tyingq 4y ago
    I imagine that's a complicated question. Do people remotely controlling weapons naturally make the same kind of decisions as those looking right at people?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Do people remotely controlling weapons naturally make the same kind of decisions as those looking right at people? I'm not sure. I could see it going both ways: de-humanised killers unleashed, or a lack of fight-or-flight prompted panics. Absent information on that, though, non-lethal is better than lethal.
      - alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
        non-lethal is still lethal.
    - cronix 4y ago
      There are plenty of US military drone operators that can answer that.
      - tyingq 4y ago
        I'm not sure that's the best comparison. Regular pilots are even somewhat detached from the effect of their weapons. It's hard to compare directly to handling a gun.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    That was the idea behind cops carrying tasers. The reality wound up being that cops still use guns in the situations where lethal force was previously warranted, but they go for the taser in situations they'd previously have had to non-violently deescalate.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    I think it just adds to dehumanization of both sides.
  - yucky 4y ago
    No. First, it dehumanizes the target. You're effectively playing a video game. Second, it obfuscates the operator and makes culpability harder to assess.
    - alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
      Why was this downvoted? Seems a honest opinion. I even agree with such opinion.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  They're manned, the man is just somewhere else.
  - ISL 4y ago
    Worked well for the Milgram experiment.
    - drisktradecover 4y ago
      What's Milgram experiment?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
    - kornhole 4y ago
      The Milgrim study was not quite as bad as it seemed or was reported. A substantial proportion of the "torturers" had figured out that it was not real. Several more protested that it was wrong. Those who did continue were convinced by the researchers that what they were doing was for the greater good. However it did show that the separation of the executioner or torturer from the victim seemed to enable more viciousness. Collateral Murder video leak from Wikileaks may better exhibit this effect.
colpabar 4y ago
They’re still going to be used against children though.
- 22SAS 4y ago
jstanley 4y ago
How are they remotely-controlled if they're not robotic? A system of ropes and pulleys? I think you mean to say they're not AI, but they are still robotic.
- kurtreed 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1540729921793708032 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1540729921793708032
- macmac 4y ago
  I am pointing out that the author is going for effect by writing "remote controlled robotic" when remote controlled would be sufficient. Something beyond remote controlled is implied by adding "robotic".
MSFT_Edging 4y ago
Thank god they invented a unique gun that can only fire sponge-tipped bullets at the occupied population. No way ever ever ever that this could be used in a slightly different, more deadly manner. Maybe they can even add sensors that shout "ow" when hit with rocks by children so they can document the reason for a use of force.
bjourne 4y ago
"only" Israel has killed babies with tear gas and maimed children with sponge-tipped bullets before. This will continue as there wont be any consequences at all for the sadists operating these guns. Previously they could at least be caught on film and the outcry would force some kind of investigation. Now there is not even that and no one will be held responsible for maiming children. This is precisely why the Israeli academy should be boycotted. Because it helps the Israeli regime develop these kind of extremely disturbing weapons. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/10/palestinian-baby-dies-from-tear-gas-inhalation-pa https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/10/palestinian-baby-di... https://www.dci-palestine.org/sponge_tipped_bullet_fired_by_israeli_forces_blinds_boy_in_left_eye https://www.dci-palestine.org/sponge_tipped_bullet_fired_by_...
- FormerBandmate 4y ago
  Tear gas and sponge-tipped bullets are used by police everywhere, including New Zealand of all places. Al Jazeera is literally Qatari government propaganda and there’s substantial evidence that DCI Palestine is tied to terrorist groups (https://www.reuters.com/world/finnish-christian-charity-cuts-ties-with-palestinian-ngo-accused-by-israel-2021-11-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/finnish-christian-charity-cuts...). Don’t let propagandists blow tragic accidents out of proportion to scapegoat the Jews
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > Tear gas and sponge-tipped bullets are used by police everywhere, including New Zealand of all places. This is odd though, right? Using tear gas in war is a war crime, for almost a hundred years now. It's very strange that we permit its use on civilian populations.
    - coredog64 4y ago
      There’s an escalation risk in using tear gas and that’s why it’s a war crime.
    - bluefirebrand 4y ago
lucideer 4y ago
I'm a little confused by this comment. What is your definition of robotic?
- macmac 4y ago
  The writer means something beyond remote controlled, otherwise it would be redundant in the headline. That makes it sensationalist in my book.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lrand10 4y ago
Unmanned weapons have always been called "robotic": https://www.wired.com/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki/ https://www.wired.com/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki/ Many industry welding robots are also not exactly autonomous. There are bomb disposal robots that are remote controlled. We don't need to reserve the term for the T1000.
ufo 4y ago
Guns that fire rubber-tipped bullets can also fire lethal munitions. Of course they'd advertise the "non-lethal" version, but the implications are clear. Furthermore there has already been at least one Mossad operation where they assassinated someone with a lethal remote controlled gun.
klooney 4y ago
But also- https://web.archive.org/web/20221017065507/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-fakhrizadeh-assassination-israel.html https://web.archive.org/web/20221017065507/https://www.nytim...

Sensationalist heading. The guns are not robotic, only remote controlled and they "only fire sponge-tipped bullets and tear gas".

by macmac 4y ago

Sensationalist heading. The guns are not robotic, only remote controlled and they "only fire sponge-tipped bullets and tear gas".

tyingq 4y ago

Fair enough that it's not robotic, but the idea of an unmanned sponge-bullet turret in my neighborhood that would fire without notice is pretty sensational anyway. For whoever it's shooting at, it has the same psychological effect as a robot shooting.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the idea of an unmanned sponge-bullet turret in my neighborhood that would fire without notice is pretty sensational anyway Isn’t it objectively better than lethally-armed soldiers?
- tyingq 4y ago
  I imagine that's a complicated question. Do people remotely controlling weapons naturally make the same kind of decisions as those looking right at people?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Do people remotely controlling weapons naturally make the same kind of decisions as those looking right at people? I'm not sure. I could see it going both ways: de-humanised killers unleashed, or a lack of fight-or-flight prompted panics. Absent information on that, though, non-lethal is better than lethal.
    - alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
      non-lethal is still lethal.
  - cronix 4y ago
    There are plenty of US military drone operators that can answer that.
    - tyingq 4y ago
      I'm not sure that's the best comparison. Regular pilots are even somewhat detached from the effect of their weapons. It's hard to compare directly to handling a gun.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  That was the idea behind cops carrying tasers. The reality wound up being that cops still use guns in the situations where lethal force was previously warranted, but they go for the taser in situations they'd previously have had to non-violently deescalate.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  I think it just adds to dehumanization of both sides.
- yucky 4y ago
  No. First, it dehumanizes the target. You're effectively playing a video game. Second, it obfuscates the operator and makes culpability harder to assess.
  - alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
    Why was this downvoted? Seems a honest opinion. I even agree with such opinion.
BurningFrog 4y ago
They're manned, the man is just somewhere else.
- ISL 4y ago
  Worked well for the Milgram experiment.
  - drisktradecover 4y ago
    What's Milgram experiment?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
  - kornhole 4y ago
    The Milgrim study was not quite as bad as it seemed or was reported. A substantial proportion of the "torturers" had figured out that it was not real. Several more protested that it was wrong. Those who did continue were convinced by the researchers that what they were doing was for the greater good. However it did show that the separation of the executioner or torturer from the victim seemed to enable more viciousness. Collateral Murder video leak from Wikileaks may better exhibit this effect.

colpabar 4y ago

They’re still going to be used against children though.

22SAS 4y ago

jstanley 4y ago

How are they remotely-controlled if they're not robotic? A system of ropes and pulleys? I think you mean to say they're not AI, but they are still robotic.

kurtreed 4y ago
https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1540729921793708032 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1540729921793708032
macmac 4y ago
I am pointing out that the author is going for effect by writing "remote controlled robotic" when remote controlled would be sufficient. Something beyond remote controlled is implied by adding "robotic".

MSFT_Edging 4y ago

Thank god they invented a unique gun that can only fire sponge-tipped bullets at the occupied population. No way ever ever ever that this could be used in a slightly different, more deadly manner. Maybe they can even add sensors that shout "ow" when hit with rocks by children so they can document the reason for a use of force.

bjourne 4y ago

"only" Israel has killed babies with tear gas and maimed children with sponge-tipped bullets before. This will continue as there wont be any consequences at all for the sadists operating these guns. Previously they could at least be caught on film and the outcry would force some kind of investigation. Now there is not even that and no one will be held responsible for maiming children. This is precisely why the Israeli academy should be boycotted. Because it helps the Israeli regime develop these kind of extremely disturbing weapons. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/10/palestinian-baby-dies-from-tear-gas-inhalation-pa https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/7/10/palestinian-baby-di... https://www.dci-palestine.org/sponge_tipped_bullet_fired_by_israeli_forces_blinds_boy_in_left_eye https://www.dci-palestine.org/sponge_tipped_bullet_fired_by_...

FormerBandmate 4y ago
Tear gas and sponge-tipped bullets are used by police everywhere, including New Zealand of all places. Al Jazeera is literally Qatari government propaganda and there’s substantial evidence that DCI Palestine is tied to terrorist groups (https://www.reuters.com/world/finnish-christian-charity-cuts-ties-with-palestinian-ngo-accused-by-israel-2021-11-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/finnish-christian-charity-cuts...). Don’t let propagandists blow tragic accidents out of proportion to scapegoat the Jews
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > Tear gas and sponge-tipped bullets are used by police everywhere, including New Zealand of all places. This is odd though, right? Using tear gas in war is a war crime, for almost a hundred years now. It's very strange that we permit its use on civilian populations.
  - coredog64 4y ago
    There’s an escalation risk in using tear gas and that’s why it’s a war crime.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago

lucideer 4y ago

I'm a little confused by this comment. What is your definition of robotic?

macmac 4y ago
The writer means something beyond remote controlled, otherwise it would be redundant in the headline. That makes it sensationalist in my book.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lrand10 4y ago

Unmanned weapons have always been called "robotic": https://www.wired.com/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki/ https://www.wired.com/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki/ Many industry welding robots are also not exactly autonomous. There are bomb disposal robots that are remote controlled. We don't need to reserve the term for the T1000.

ufo 4y ago

Guns that fire rubber-tipped bullets can also fire lethal munitions. Of course they'd advertise the "non-lethal" version, but the implications are clear. Furthermore there has already been at least one Mossad operation where they assassinated someone with a lethal remote controlled gun.

klooney 4y ago

But also- https://web.archive.org/web/20221017065507/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/18/world/middleeast/iran-nuclear-fakhrizadeh-assassination-israel.html https://web.archive.org/web/20221017065507/https://www.nytim...