4 ms·

Why be productive then? Both for those who get basics anyway and for those who get taxed through the roof? I'm using „productive“ instead of „work“ for a reaso

by mantas 4y ago

Why be productive then? Both for those who get basics anyway and for those who get taxed through the roof? I'm using „productive“ instead of „work“ for a reason. It's easy find a BS „work“ to do. E.g. I could spend my days bicycling and pretend I'm making a map :) And build some software for fun, e.g. yet another todo app. But neither is productive for the society at large.

SuoDuanDao 4y ago
Because you want the superyacht? Or at least the status that comes with it?
- mantas 4y ago
  Why? I don't want neither status nor the yacht. For those who do want, it may become out of reach too. First, taxes are now much higher to build all the housing and everything. Next, it will be harder to find workers if basic needs are there. Both to make money and build the yacht. Finally, it will be harder to come up with a product. People consume lots of stuff they don't need. They've to work one way or another. Money is there so they spend it. Now if you just had your basic needs met, but didn't have disposable money.. It'd be much bigger step to go find employment to buy random stuff.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    “Superyacht” is stand-in for anything beyond one’s basic human needs. What is one person’s run if the mill property is another’s luxury. For instance, In the discussion you wrote that you’d ride your bicycle and wanna code all day (which requires a computer, and presumably, since you’re on HN participating in thoughtful discussion, an internet connection). There are millions and millions of people who don’t have that, and to them, it is a big luxury item.
    - mantas 4y ago
      There's a big difference between a soft paddle boat and superyacht. Both are beyond basic needs. A very basic computing device is rather cheap these days. Look at mobile internet penetration in Africa or Asia. Sure, not everybody has it. But it'd certainly make a basic needs list. In worst case - as a shared use devices in libraries. Especially given how modern society relies on digitalisation.
andsoitis 4y ago
> Why be productive then? I think the answer is partly embedded in your last sentence (“neither is productive for the society at large”). Let me ask you: if you had all the basics taken care of, what do you think you would do every day for the rest of your life?
- mantas 4y ago
  Ride my bicycle and write software for fun. Not caring about what society and/or market needs. Just writing software for the sake of it. E.g perfecting best-ever-made todo app.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    Would you publish your software? Would you host it on GitHub or the like? If yes, I would argue that there's value exchange.
    - mantas 4y ago
      Probably not. Just keep it perfecting forever locally. After all the fun is in programming, not dealing with publishing, making an icon, a sound name etc. Even if I did publish it, I doubt a new app where 10000 already exists helps the society in a meaningful way. Current model, even if with all the flaws, ensures that the market votes what is actually productive or not. Command economy didn't work well. Such hobby-economy probably would be on the same level of inefficiency.

by mantas 4y ago

SuoDuanDao 4y ago

Because you want the superyacht? Or at least the status that comes with it?

mantas 4y ago
Why? I don't want neither status nor the yacht. For those who do want, it may become out of reach too. First, taxes are now much higher to build all the housing and everything. Next, it will be harder to find workers if basic needs are there. Both to make money and build the yacht. Finally, it will be harder to come up with a product. People consume lots of stuff they don't need. They've to work one way or another. Money is there so they spend it. Now if you just had your basic needs met, but didn't have disposable money.. It'd be much bigger step to go find employment to buy random stuff.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  “Superyacht” is stand-in for anything beyond one’s basic human needs. What is one person’s run if the mill property is another’s luxury. For instance, In the discussion you wrote that you’d ride your bicycle and wanna code all day (which requires a computer, and presumably, since you’re on HN participating in thoughtful discussion, an internet connection). There are millions and millions of people who don’t have that, and to them, it is a big luxury item.
  - mantas 4y ago
    There's a big difference between a soft paddle boat and superyacht. Both are beyond basic needs. A very basic computing device is rather cheap these days. Look at mobile internet penetration in Africa or Asia. Sure, not everybody has it. But it'd certainly make a basic needs list. In worst case - as a shared use devices in libraries. Especially given how modern society relies on digitalisation.

andsoitis 4y ago

> Why be productive then? I think the answer is partly embedded in your last sentence (“neither is productive for the society at large”). Let me ask you: if you had all the basics taken care of, what do you think you would do every day for the rest of your life?

mantas 4y ago
Ride my bicycle and write software for fun. Not caring about what society and/or market needs. Just writing software for the sake of it. E.g perfecting best-ever-made todo app.
- andsoitis 4y ago
  Would you publish your software? Would you host it on GitHub or the like? If yes, I would argue that there's value exchange.
  - mantas 4y ago
    Probably not. Just keep it perfecting forever locally. After all the fun is in programming, not dealing with publishing, making an icon, a sound name etc. Even if I did publish it, I doubt a new app where 10000 already exists helps the society in a meaningful way. Current model, even if with all the flaws, ensures that the market votes what is actually productive or not. Command economy didn't work well. Such hobby-economy probably would be on the same level of inefficiency.