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It really is the exact opposite approach to static analysis, which tries to see what the code really does andhow that leads to bugs. I have had (quite expensive

It really is the exact opposite approach to static analysis, which tries to see what the code really does andhow that leads to bugs. I have had (quite expensive) static analysis tools detect genuine bugs, e.g. a somewhat subtle overflow. What it can never detect though is correct code that misses the intention of the programmer. E.g. whether some mathematical function is accurate. The language models try, by statistical means, to derive what should be there. Given enough data they will start to have sone (statistical) grasp on the intention. I am not entirely sure about the boilerplate though. Often you need some minor variation of an already existing pattern. Trying to unify those slightly divergent patterns into one schema can very easily lead to very hard to understand code. Another thing is thar boilerplate is fairly easy to write and to test, because it is familiar, reducing the actual effort which goes into it. Sometimes it is just better to not reuse code.

kneebonian 4y ago
Honestly this is what I have loved about Kotlin. There seems like there is now just a certain amount of boilerplate in every Java file and Kotlin just chose to bake that all into the language, the other instance where we see this happening is with the Lombok library in Java. Although personally I hate annotations.
yccs27 4y ago
+1 on the last paragraph: Predictability means the code follows a pattern, not that it is boilerplate. Some amount of predictable code is necessary just to spell out what the code does, so that even someone unfamiliar with the pattern can simply read and understand it.
ajuc 4y ago
When you go too far reducing boilerplate you get to a point where configuration becomes the code and the actual code becomes black box that people barely understand. And then they replicate what's already in the black box because they aren't sure it's there, and you do the same things over and over in every layer. And in some layers you do it one way and in others - other way. And then requirements change and you change the code and it still works the old way SOME of the time, but you only discover that in production, because the test case you used when you developed is handled on the layer where you changed it correctly. And then if it's buried deep enough somebody will add another layer and fix the cases that were found - there. And that's how the disgusting legacy code happens. KISS, please. Unnecessary abstraction is the root of almost all problems in programming.
- fennecfoxy 4y ago
  I think the biggest problem with templating/reusing instead of boilerplate is just how hard it is for a dev to answer the question(s): has somebody already done this, is their solution flexible enough to fit mine, etc. Hell, just helpers/utilities functions within an organisation aren't always used, devs end up reimplementing stuff all the time simply because there's no easy way to know about it (documentation is only one part of this).
- Micoloth 4y ago
  That was beutifully written. Although, I feel like very often, the idea of resucing boilerplate should __not__ to hide the boilerplate one layer below- it should be to __try not to write the boilerplate__ … Take this very specific example at hand.. What is the meaning of this “JoelEvent” class? Why is it there? It appears that is wraps a list of functions, with methods to push and pop from it. Why is it necessary to write them? “Dispatch” reimplements function application , apparently? Btw, it is beyond me why one would loop over this.listeners and the check if the element is in this.listeners . In a reasonable language or framework, I cannot in any way see a reason why this code needs to be written.. This is the idea of removing boilerplate, to me!

kneebonian 4y ago

Honestly this is what I have loved about Kotlin. There seems like there is now just a certain amount of boilerplate in every Java file and Kotlin just chose to bake that all into the language, the other instance where we see this happening is with the Lombok library in Java. Although personally I hate annotations.

yccs27 4y ago

+1 on the last paragraph: Predictability means the code follows a pattern, not that it is boilerplate. Some amount of predictable code is necessary just to spell out what the code does, so that even someone unfamiliar with the pattern can simply read and understand it.

ajuc 4y ago

When you go too far reducing boilerplate you get to a point where configuration becomes the code and the actual code becomes black box that people barely understand. And then they replicate what's already in the black box because they aren't sure it's there, and you do the same things over and over in every layer. And in some layers you do it one way and in others - other way. And then requirements change and you change the code and it still works the old way SOME of the time, but you only discover that in production, because the test case you used when you developed is handled on the layer where you changed it correctly. And then if it's buried deep enough somebody will add another layer and fix the cases that were found - there. And that's how the disgusting legacy code happens. KISS, please. Unnecessary abstraction is the root of almost all problems in programming.

fennecfoxy 4y ago
I think the biggest problem with templating/reusing instead of boilerplate is just how hard it is for a dev to answer the question(s): has somebody already done this, is their solution flexible enough to fit mine, etc. Hell, just helpers/utilities functions within an organisation aren't always used, devs end up reimplementing stuff all the time simply because there's no easy way to know about it (documentation is only one part of this).
Micoloth 4y ago
That was beutifully written. Although, I feel like very often, the idea of resucing boilerplate should __not__ to hide the boilerplate one layer below- it should be to __try not to write the boilerplate__ … Take this very specific example at hand.. What is the meaning of this “JoelEvent” class? Why is it there? It appears that is wraps a list of functions, with methods to push and pop from it. Why is it necessary to write them? “Dispatch” reimplements function application , apparently? Btw, it is beyond me why one would loop over this.listeners and the check if the element is in this.listeners . In a reasonable language or framework, I cannot in any way see a reason why this code needs to be written.. This is the idea of removing boilerplate, to me!