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It depends on the thing you want to create. The browser UI controls are limited at best, keep your expectations low. Writing Vanilla JS is error-prone unless y

It depends on the thing you want to create. The browser UI controls are limited at best, keep your expectations low. Writing Vanilla JS is error-prone unless you are very disciplined, writing "Vanilla" CSS is OK for the most part, Vanilla HTML is fine. It's best to use some tooling, but there are dozens to choose from.

pipeline_peak 4y ago
Forgot to add I want to make a simple app where users can create and fill out a form. ATC test plans, to be exact.
- fredsmith219 4y ago
  For something that simple you could check out PHP. Or even google forms, if you don’t mind something really simple and hosted by google.
markdown 4y ago
> It's best to use some tooling Please don't hurt OP. They're new to this and want help. They should avoid web tooling forever if they want to maintain their sanity. It's just a mess of a hundred and one tools that all do half of what every other one does, built by people who just refuse to get along and standardise on the Best Way ™ to do things.
- irrational 4y ago
  I wish I could avoid web tooling, because I completely agree. But I’m forced to use it at work. Thankfully I’m free for my personal projects.
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
>Writing Vanilla JS is error-prone unless you are very disciplined the absolute state of web developers in 2022
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  If you are trying to create a stateful web app it's true. Even with frameworks it can be difficult. I wouldn't want to write anything complex in vanilla JS. You also lose a lot of niceties with DX, like TS and components.
- dutchCourage 4y ago
  Genuine question: what would you recommend using? Both companies I worked for in the early 2010's ended up recreating their own (subpar) implementations of what React does. While I do agree the bar to get started on the web is too high, I feel like it's never been so low? React and frameworks like Next.js have been great to use. Much better than what I was using back then. I don't have experience with e.g. Laravel/Ruby on Rails though. Are these any easier to work with?
  - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
    what I'm saying you do need to know JS really well before you even touch frameworks

pipeline_peak 4y ago

Forgot to add I want to make a simple app where users can create and fill out a form. ATC test plans, to be exact.

fredsmith219 4y ago
For something that simple you could check out PHP. Or even google forms, if you don’t mind something really simple and hosted by google.

markdown 4y ago

> It's best to use some tooling Please don't hurt OP. They're new to this and want help. They should avoid web tooling forever if they want to maintain their sanity. It's just a mess of a hundred and one tools that all do half of what every other one does, built by people who just refuse to get along and standardise on the Best Way ™ to do things.

irrational 4y ago
I wish I could avoid web tooling, because I completely agree. But I’m forced to use it at work. Thankfully I’m free for my personal projects.

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago

>Writing Vanilla JS is error-prone unless you are very disciplined the absolute state of web developers in 2022

ZephyrBlu 4y ago
If you are trying to create a stateful web app it's true. Even with frameworks it can be difficult. I wouldn't want to write anything complex in vanilla JS. You also lose a lot of niceties with DX, like TS and components.
dutchCourage 4y ago
Genuine question: what would you recommend using? Both companies I worked for in the early 2010's ended up recreating their own (subpar) implementations of what React does. While I do agree the bar to get started on the web is too high, I feel like it's never been so low? React and frameworks like Next.js have been great to use. Much better than what I was using back then. I don't have experience with e.g. Laravel/Ruby on Rails though. Are these any easier to work with?
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  what I'm saying you do need to know JS really well before you even touch frameworks