4 ms·

A new e-bike rider who suddenly is capable of 20mph and has no experience to the contrary might assume (wrongly) that they can navigate safely at that speed. C

A new e-bike rider who suddenly is capable of 20mph and has no experience to the contrary might assume (wrongly) that they can navigate safely at that speed. Cyclists who can maintain 20+ mph on flat ground (not at all uncommon!) will have many more riding hours under their belts, and the commensurate handling skills and instincts.

whimsicalism 4y ago
This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then cyclists. They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a greater degree.
- roughly 4y ago
  I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those folks were frightening. Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom, their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is still adequately supplied.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    In SF, I actually notice this more with the non-rental ones - the bikeshare e-bikes are pedal assist so a bit different. I am hoping that as time goes on these newfound e-bike owners will get more comfortable and will respect traditional biking norms. Another phenomena I've noticed is a lot more kids with e-bikes, oftentimes 3 kids to a single bike.
  - Glide 4y ago
    God… the most close calls I’ve seen have always been with rental e-scooters. Both of them blew past a red light, which btw, I was stopped at on my e-scooter. He nearly got hit by a SUV if the driver didn’t stop. I think there’s some expectation for bikes to go with traffic, rental scooter riders think they’re some kind of unicorn where right of way no longer applies. And I am assuming they are rental scooters because of the styling and lack of helmet.
    - whimsicalism 4y ago
      I think generally the cultural expectation among bikers is stop signs as yield and red lights as (at minimum) stop signs.
MivLives 4y ago
The other thing is someone on a pedal bike hitting 20+ is generally doing it in an area that can handle it. An ebike you can get to 20 plus in half a block.
hoistbypetard 4y ago
And we have still had one of those cyclists (on a traditional road bike) with all of those riding hours, handling skills and instincts, kill an elderly pedestrian on a mixed-use trail around here by maintaining that 20+mph. I'm starting to think e-bikes that go that fast should use traffic lanes intended for cars and motorcycles, not mixed-use trails intended for bicycles and pedestrians.
- ekidd 4y ago
  That's heartbreaking. 20 mph on a mixed-use trail is dangerously reckless, unless you get a long empty stretch out in the countryside. There are always groups of 4+ pedestrians who will suddenly spread out and block both lanes completely, with almost zero warning. If you can't react to that without an accident, you're going way too fast. It would be nice if pedestrians would stay in the correct lane, but it's never going to happen. Even if you're only going 5 mph, you've rung a loud bell, and you've clearly said, "Passing on your left" (if that's the local trail's convention), then half the group will immediately spread into the left lane. And the other half will block the right. This is the most basic fact of mixed-use trail safety.
  - hoistbypetard 4y ago
    According to witnesses in this case, the cyclist called "on your left" (which is the local convention) prior to attempting the pass, and the pedestrian moved left. The descriptions did not sound over-the-top reckless to me. "Heartbreaking" was really the only word for it.
ekidd 4y ago
Huh, I used to commute on a mountain bike in Somerville, MA. There were a couple of sections where I normally hit 20-25 mph on downhills. (Ones with no side roads to the right, and no tight corners.) I wouldn't have wanted to wipe out or go over the handlebars at that speed. But on a familiar road, with 26" knobby tires and a front suspension, I had reliable control. The gyroscope effect of mountain bike rims is substantial at 25 mph. And a mountain bike is usually fine even on awful pavement, especially for someone who also rides in the woods. The biggest danger by far in that scenario was Boston drivers. All the injuries I ever heard of were cars doing something illegal, or people getting doored on the Central Square bike lane. Overall, the statistics are pretty decent for experienced cyclists, if they're riding their daily commute and obeying traffic laws. For an ebike, I'd want to stick with max 20mph pedal assist, and full size tires. And I'd want something I could ride onto a soft shoulder at full speed. So probably knobby tires and a front shock? If I can't drop 2" onto a sand shoulder, then I'm going too fast.

whimsicalism 4y ago

This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then cyclists. They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a greater degree.

roughly 4y ago
I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those folks were frightening. Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom, their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is still adequately supplied.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  In SF, I actually notice this more with the non-rental ones - the bikeshare e-bikes are pedal assist so a bit different. I am hoping that as time goes on these newfound e-bike owners will get more comfortable and will respect traditional biking norms. Another phenomena I've noticed is a lot more kids with e-bikes, oftentimes 3 kids to a single bike.
- Glide 4y ago
  God… the most close calls I’ve seen have always been with rental e-scooters. Both of them blew past a red light, which btw, I was stopped at on my e-scooter. He nearly got hit by a SUV if the driver didn’t stop. I think there’s some expectation for bikes to go with traffic, rental scooter riders think they’re some kind of unicorn where right of way no longer applies. And I am assuming they are rental scooters because of the styling and lack of helmet.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    I think generally the cultural expectation among bikers is stop signs as yield and red lights as (at minimum) stop signs.

MivLives 4y ago

The other thing is someone on a pedal bike hitting 20+ is generally doing it in an area that can handle it. An ebike you can get to 20 plus in half a block.

hoistbypetard 4y ago

And we have still had one of those cyclists (on a traditional road bike) with all of those riding hours, handling skills and instincts, kill an elderly pedestrian on a mixed-use trail around here by maintaining that 20+mph. I'm starting to think e-bikes that go that fast should use traffic lanes intended for cars and motorcycles, not mixed-use trails intended for bicycles and pedestrians.

ekidd 4y ago
That's heartbreaking. 20 mph on a mixed-use trail is dangerously reckless, unless you get a long empty stretch out in the countryside. There are always groups of 4+ pedestrians who will suddenly spread out and block both lanes completely, with almost zero warning. If you can't react to that without an accident, you're going way too fast. It would be nice if pedestrians would stay in the correct lane, but it's never going to happen. Even if you're only going 5 mph, you've rung a loud bell, and you've clearly said, "Passing on your left" (if that's the local trail's convention), then half the group will immediately spread into the left lane. And the other half will block the right. This is the most basic fact of mixed-use trail safety.
- hoistbypetard 4y ago
  According to witnesses in this case, the cyclist called "on your left" (which is the local convention) prior to attempting the pass, and the pedestrian moved left. The descriptions did not sound over-the-top reckless to me. "Heartbreaking" was really the only word for it.

ekidd 4y ago

Huh, I used to commute on a mountain bike in Somerville, MA. There were a couple of sections where I normally hit 20-25 mph on downhills. (Ones with no side roads to the right, and no tight corners.) I wouldn't have wanted to wipe out or go over the handlebars at that speed. But on a familiar road, with 26" knobby tires and a front suspension, I had reliable control. The gyroscope effect of mountain bike rims is substantial at 25 mph. And a mountain bike is usually fine even on awful pavement, especially for someone who also rides in the woods. The biggest danger by far in that scenario was Boston drivers. All the injuries I ever heard of were cars doing something illegal, or people getting doored on the Central Square bike lane. Overall, the statistics are pretty decent for experienced cyclists, if they're riding their daily commute and obeying traffic laws. For an ebike, I'd want to stick with max 20mph pedal assist, and full size tires. And I'd want something I could ride onto a soft shoulder at full speed. So probably knobby tires and a front shock? If I can't drop 2" onto a sand shoulder, then I'm going too fast.