7 ms·

> To put it bluntly, I’m not sure I trusted Infosys to revoke this key in a timely manner. So I did it for them with aws iam delete-access-key --access-key-id=$

> To put it bluntly, I’m not sure I trusted Infosys to revoke this key in a timely manner. So I did it for them with aws iam delete-access-key --access-key-id=$AWS_ACCESS_KEY_ID, and now the key is useless: Hilarious. Infosys is a known "mass recruiter" in indian colleges. WITCH (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) companies is where talent goes to die. No competent employee stays in those companies (from what I've witnessed). Wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be just the tip of the iceberg, because putting people with 6-12 months of programming / computer "experience" (that they only signed up for because of the money) in charge of major production systems is a recipe for disaster.

smcl 4y ago
> Cognizant Someone hired those clowns as contractors as extra in a previous job, to loud protests from our development team. They produced what was quite possibly the most chaotic, copy-paste, typo-laden code I have ever seen in my life.
- 0xmohit 4y ago
  This is hardly surprising. Most of them would be completely clueless about the code they've "written".
foreggs5 4y ago
drcross 4y ago
>No competent employee stays in those companies Absolutely true from first hand experience. Imagine being a top performer doing great work for a company whose managers insist on wasting your time putting you into needless meetings getting you to explain how you're doing everything all through badly communicated text with typos and misspellings.
- rodgerd 4y ago
- Gare 4y ago
  Well, at least it got Rishi('s wife) rich.
duxup 4y ago
I had some contact with Wipro. It was their standard operating procedure to call us up and yell at support team members that X "Hasn't worked for months and you haven't done anything." + escalate up the chain as high as possible to put pressure on the tech support staff from some other vendor, when in fact they just opened the ticket. They would lie and reference the first old ticket they could think of and say it was the same issue (it never was, they wouldn't even lie well enough to reference the same equipment). They would declare everything was a P1 ticket and demand it be fixed immediately. Then we would get some output from the machine or even remotely access it and find that outside of testing at the factory this was the first time it was powered on. When we would ask them for configurations ... they were evasive. If you got their end customer on the line you would find that they had been lying to them for months. This happened a lot ...
robofanatic 4y ago
> Infosys is a known "mass recruiter" in indian colleges. WITCH (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) companies is where talent goes to die. This could be true but you cant really generalize and it has nothing to do with the article. Infosys is not the only company leaking keys online. pretty sure tons of Amarican companies have done that
- willywanker 4y ago
  Infosys bot spotted. 'Amarican' companies eh?
- duxup 4y ago
  I think that post goes on to explain why that might be relevant.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
dessant 4y ago
Fun fact: Mozilla projects are now developed in part by Cognizant Softvision, including Firefox for Android. Their employees are everywhere on Mozilla bug trackers, and their numbers seem to have increased since 2020, right after Mozilla fired a quarter of its workforce. https://www.cognizantsoftvision.com/blog/pedal-metal-mozilla/ https://www.cognizantsoftvision.com/blog/pedal-metal-mozilla...
- alfiedotwtf 4y ago
  This pisses me straight off. Someone needs to fork Mozilla (the company) and bring back its hayday culture.
  - willywanker 4y ago
    Already happened years ago, if you want the old Firefox with XUL extension support, full themes and zero tracking as it was before they started copying Chrome in 2011, give Pale Moon a try. It's an independent fork, the last independent browser left, with its own rendering engine Goanna that is a fork of Firefox's Gecko.
  - propogandist 4y ago
    they went woke, and are on the path to go broke. Sadly, they’re the only mainstream competition to Chrome.
    - waste_monk 4y ago
      > and are on the path to go broke. Sadly, they’re the only mainstream competition to Chrome. Is it overly cynical of me to wonder if this is Google's doing? Setting someone to infiltrate Mozilla's management and sabotage it, with the long-term goal of killing all serious non-chromium alternatives. I don't know about the woke thing, I figure it's more likely to be about removing ad-block friendly API's in Manifest V3 (and presumably even more hostile changes in some future Manifest V4).
      - sdf4j 4y ago
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
I've seen Infosys-produced code that there was no way it was going to work... turns out that after I googled it, multiple lines were straight 1:1 copy pasta from multiple StackOverflow answers - just jammed together in the hope that something would work. I was shook.
- alisonatwork 4y ago
  This is unfortunately common even outside of Infosys. I've experienced it at several of my former employers, although admittedly more in China than in other countries I worked. It's interesting when you sit beside a developer who does this kind of stuff in a pair-programming context, because it immediately becomes clear that they really don't have a clue how to read and understand code in the abstract. Their process is literally copying and pasting stuff that seems similar and then running it until some arbitrary happy path test passes, not considering that it might only be passing by accident, or that they might not even be testing a real business scenario, or that there are now a bunch of unused and misleadingly-named variables floating around. And when you point that out, there isn't even a lightbulb going on that perhaps they should try to clean things up or adapt the pattern to better fit the specific use case. I've always attributed it to a mindset that doesn't really take quality into account. And it's hard for me to argue the point when I have also been "guilty" of doing a quick hack solution or employing YAGNI to build something that might not be DRY or especially elegant but does work to solve the problem. People who just throw everything at the wall until something randomly sticks believe they're doing the same thing. Who cares if the code is unmaintainable or not performant? Who cares if there's a bug? They still get paid anyway, and the corporate machine just keeps rolling on. So - from their point of view - why make the extra effort? For me I think it's just a neatness or tidiness compulsion that makes me want to try to make code clear, robust, backward compatible and maintainable. But realistically even if I didn't do that, I'd probably still be 20 years into my career and working as a senior dev, so what's the difference? It makes me sad.
  - mindentropy 4y ago
    Man, I echo the same sentiments. Even I too have this compulsion for neatness and tidiness and find it near impossible to work on completely messed up code. >But realistically even if I didn't do that, I'd probably still be 20 years into my career and working as a senior dev, so what's the difference? Similar thoughts. Looking back I think about all the time I had sacrificed to make myself better but for what? There is no value for this as I have seen totally incompetent people still standing and moving much ahead. The corporate juggernaut does not give a damn about workmanship or quality, something I learnt later in my life as I took a pause to catch my breath.
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
> No competent employee stays in those companies I gotta say, this explains so much. We have a FTE who came from infosys and he's very good. I have such a hard time squaring that with the team that submits an initial PR with the bin and obj directories checked in, then follows it up by adding .gitignore.txt file before FINALLY submitting a .gitignore file. And then finding them representing currency as float, or finding catch statements with a single line that rethrows it, as below (C#) // this form throws away the stack trace from the original exception. catch(Exception ex) { throw ex; } And when asked why this exists they add logging to it catch(Exception ex) { _log.Debug("Unhandled exception handled.", ex); throw ex; } ---- I could go on, but the ole eyebrow just twitches whenever I think about infosys. But then I see this other person who came from infosys. It's like trying to understand how that 6'11" basketball player came from that family who has no one over 5' tall. Rationally I know strong technical folks can come from these companies, but damn... how? There's another poster claiming everyone makes mistakes, but no, many of the mistakes they make are not reasonable.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Imagine trying to debug a issue in the middle of the night and you go to the logs to find "Unhandled exception handled." dozens of times. I'd probably just quit.
- QuinnyPig 4y ago
  They employ a quarter million people. Quality may vary…
  - _djo_ 4y ago
    Yes. There are a number of highly skilled and talented people in Infosys and the other WITCH companies, but they're generally staffed only on the most prestigious projects and tend to move on fairly quickly. As another commenter said, in most cases they got recruited straight out of college. So it's not that everyone at companies like Infosys are bad, it's that their hiring standards are so lax and hiring rate so high that the large proportion of their engineering people are mediocre at best, and that's why most engineers at European or American companies would've been exposed to. The typical model of a WITCH engagement is to get a new client project that requires, say 100 engineers, and immediately go to market to hire 90% of them because they don't have a bench. Screening is minimal. They're then heavily micromanaged on the project for the first few months, where it's expected that at least half of those people will fail and either their manager or the client will demand they get rotated off and then sacked. They're replaced by another cohort freshly hired and the process repeats until you have a stable-ish team of good-enough competence about 8 months in. It works because it's still cheaper and easier for big corps and big projects and the delivered quality is fairly shit, but still acceptable. And the margins are so good that in the rare event there are late delivery penalties they're fairly easily absorbed.
sbf501 4y ago
too bad, it's a great company name that inspires confidence... until you read a comment like this!
kblev 4y ago
What about Sapient?
unixhero 4y ago
AWITCH ... you forgot Accenture
- abhinavm 4y ago
  Or IWATCH
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  Glad to find this mentioned, Accenture is absolutely an offender.
  - unixhero 4y ago
    I have had some ridiculous situations with them. For one the developers in Bangalore Delivery Center 8, and what do I know, all of them?, had to work with their private computers. A unix engineer could only work with Aix Tar and would not touch GNU Tar on Linux, because his manager had not approved it. Onshore engineers flying home to India due to a stomach ache, instead of seeing a doctor for free in the host country due to being afraid. Of course messing up the flow of our projects. 10/10 will leave jobs to avoid such projects and situations again.
    - kapilkaisare 4y ago
      > Onshore engineers flying home to India due to a stomach ache, instead of seeing a doctor for free in the host country due to being afraid. This feels like an exaggeration to me, although I'm open to hearing specifics to the contrary. I know of (non resident) immigrants who delay medical visits and treatments until they get back to their home country, but flying home (spending a good deal of money on air fare) for just a stomach ache sounds pound foolish, which immigrants generally aren't.
      - unixhero 4y ago
        It happened, that's all I can say. At times banality knows no limits.
paxys 4y ago
These companies literally do not want to hire competent people, because they know they won't stick around. Their business model is to hire the absolute bottom of the barrel engineers, pay them the tech equivalent of minimum wage, and sell "consulting services" to overseas firms that don't know any better.

smcl 4y ago

> Cognizant Someone hired those clowns as contractors as extra in a previous job, to loud protests from our development team. They produced what was quite possibly the most chaotic, copy-paste, typo-laden code I have ever seen in my life.

0xmohit 4y ago
This is hardly surprising. Most of them would be completely clueless about the code they've "written".

foreggs5 4y ago

drcross 4y ago

>No competent employee stays in those companies Absolutely true from first hand experience. Imagine being a top performer doing great work for a company whose managers insist on wasting your time putting you into needless meetings getting you to explain how you're doing everything all through badly communicated text with typos and misspellings.

rodgerd 4y ago
Gare 4y ago
Well, at least it got Rishi('s wife) rich.

duxup 4y ago

I had some contact with Wipro. It was their standard operating procedure to call us up and yell at support team members that X "Hasn't worked for months and you haven't done anything." + escalate up the chain as high as possible to put pressure on the tech support staff from some other vendor, when in fact they just opened the ticket. They would lie and reference the first old ticket they could think of and say it was the same issue (it never was, they wouldn't even lie well enough to reference the same equipment). They would declare everything was a P1 ticket and demand it be fixed immediately. Then we would get some output from the machine or even remotely access it and find that outside of testing at the factory this was the first time it was powered on. When we would ask them for configurations ... they were evasive. If you got their end customer on the line you would find that they had been lying to them for months. This happened a lot ...

robofanatic 4y ago

> Infosys is a known "mass recruiter" in indian colleges. WITCH (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) companies is where talent goes to die. This could be true but you cant really generalize and it has nothing to do with the article. Infosys is not the only company leaking keys online. pretty sure tons of Amarican companies have done that

willywanker 4y ago
Infosys bot spotted. 'Amarican' companies eh?
duxup 4y ago
I think that post goes on to explain why that might be relevant.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

dessant 4y ago

Fun fact: Mozilla projects are now developed in part by Cognizant Softvision, including Firefox for Android. Their employees are everywhere on Mozilla bug trackers, and their numbers seem to have increased since 2020, right after Mozilla fired a quarter of its workforce. https://www.cognizantsoftvision.com/blog/pedal-metal-mozilla/ https://www.cognizantsoftvision.com/blog/pedal-metal-mozilla...

alfiedotwtf 4y ago
This pisses me straight off. Someone needs to fork Mozilla (the company) and bring back its hayday culture.
- willywanker 4y ago
  Already happened years ago, if you want the old Firefox with XUL extension support, full themes and zero tracking as it was before they started copying Chrome in 2011, give Pale Moon a try. It's an independent fork, the last independent browser left, with its own rendering engine Goanna that is a fork of Firefox's Gecko.
- propogandist 4y ago
  they went woke, and are on the path to go broke. Sadly, they’re the only mainstream competition to Chrome.
  - waste_monk 4y ago
    > and are on the path to go broke. Sadly, they’re the only mainstream competition to Chrome. Is it overly cynical of me to wonder if this is Google's doing? Setting someone to infiltrate Mozilla's management and sabotage it, with the long-term goal of killing all serious non-chromium alternatives. I don't know about the woke thing, I figure it's more likely to be about removing ad-block friendly API's in Manifest V3 (and presumably even more hostile changes in some future Manifest V4).
    - sdf4j 4y ago

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

I've seen Infosys-produced code that there was no way it was going to work... turns out that after I googled it, multiple lines were straight 1:1 copy pasta from multiple StackOverflow answers - just jammed together in the hope that something would work. I was shook.

alisonatwork 4y ago
This is unfortunately common even outside of Infosys. I've experienced it at several of my former employers, although admittedly more in China than in other countries I worked. It's interesting when you sit beside a developer who does this kind of stuff in a pair-programming context, because it immediately becomes clear that they really don't have a clue how to read and understand code in the abstract. Their process is literally copying and pasting stuff that seems similar and then running it until some arbitrary happy path test passes, not considering that it might only be passing by accident, or that they might not even be testing a real business scenario, or that there are now a bunch of unused and misleadingly-named variables floating around. And when you point that out, there isn't even a lightbulb going on that perhaps they should try to clean things up or adapt the pattern to better fit the specific use case. I've always attributed it to a mindset that doesn't really take quality into account. And it's hard for me to argue the point when I have also been "guilty" of doing a quick hack solution or employing YAGNI to build something that might not be DRY or especially elegant but does work to solve the problem. People who just throw everything at the wall until something randomly sticks believe they're doing the same thing. Who cares if the code is unmaintainable or not performant? Who cares if there's a bug? They still get paid anyway, and the corporate machine just keeps rolling on. So - from their point of view - why make the extra effort? For me I think it's just a neatness or tidiness compulsion that makes me want to try to make code clear, robust, backward compatible and maintainable. But realistically even if I didn't do that, I'd probably still be 20 years into my career and working as a senior dev, so what's the difference? It makes me sad.
- mindentropy 4y ago
  Man, I echo the same sentiments. Even I too have this compulsion for neatness and tidiness and find it near impossible to work on completely messed up code. >But realistically even if I didn't do that, I'd probably still be 20 years into my career and working as a senior dev, so what's the difference? Similar thoughts. Looking back I think about all the time I had sacrificed to make myself better but for what? There is no value for this as I have seen totally incompetent people still standing and moving much ahead. The corporate juggernaut does not give a damn about workmanship or quality, something I learnt later in my life as I took a pause to catch my breath.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

> No competent employee stays in those companies I gotta say, this explains so much. We have a FTE who came from infosys and he's very good. I have such a hard time squaring that with the team that submits an initial PR with the bin and obj directories checked in, then follows it up by adding .gitignore.txt file before FINALLY submitting a .gitignore file. And then finding them representing currency as float, or finding catch statements with a single line that rethrows it, as below (C#) // this form throws away the stack trace from the original exception. catch(Exception ex) { throw ex; } And when asked why this exists they add logging to it catch(Exception ex) { _log.Debug("Unhandled exception handled.", ex); throw ex; } ---- I could go on, but the ole eyebrow just twitches whenever I think about infosys. But then I see this other person who came from infosys. It's like trying to understand how that 6'11" basketball player came from that family who has no one over 5' tall. Rationally I know strong technical folks can come from these companies, but damn... how? There's another poster claiming everyone makes mistakes, but no, many of the mistakes they make are not reasonable.

willcipriano 4y ago
Imagine trying to debug a issue in the middle of the night and you go to the logs to find "Unhandled exception handled." dozens of times. I'd probably just quit.
QuinnyPig 4y ago
They employ a quarter million people. Quality may vary…
- _djo_ 4y ago
  Yes. There are a number of highly skilled and talented people in Infosys and the other WITCH companies, but they're generally staffed only on the most prestigious projects and tend to move on fairly quickly. As another commenter said, in most cases they got recruited straight out of college. So it's not that everyone at companies like Infosys are bad, it's that their hiring standards are so lax and hiring rate so high that the large proportion of their engineering people are mediocre at best, and that's why most engineers at European or American companies would've been exposed to. The typical model of a WITCH engagement is to get a new client project that requires, say 100 engineers, and immediately go to market to hire 90% of them because they don't have a bench. Screening is minimal. They're then heavily micromanaged on the project for the first few months, where it's expected that at least half of those people will fail and either their manager or the client will demand they get rotated off and then sacked. They're replaced by another cohort freshly hired and the process repeats until you have a stable-ish team of good-enough competence about 8 months in. It works because it's still cheaper and easier for big corps and big projects and the delivered quality is fairly shit, but still acceptable. And the margins are so good that in the rare event there are late delivery penalties they're fairly easily absorbed.

sbf501 4y ago

too bad, it's a great company name that inspires confidence... until you read a comment like this!

kblev 4y ago

What about Sapient?

unixhero 4y ago

AWITCH ... you forgot Accenture

abhinavm 4y ago
Or IWATCH
halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
Glad to find this mentioned, Accenture is absolutely an offender.
- unixhero 4y ago
  I have had some ridiculous situations with them. For one the developers in Bangalore Delivery Center 8, and what do I know, all of them?, had to work with their private computers. A unix engineer could only work with Aix Tar and would not touch GNU Tar on Linux, because his manager had not approved it. Onshore engineers flying home to India due to a stomach ache, instead of seeing a doctor for free in the host country due to being afraid. Of course messing up the flow of our projects. 10/10 will leave jobs to avoid such projects and situations again.
  - kapilkaisare 4y ago
    > Onshore engineers flying home to India due to a stomach ache, instead of seeing a doctor for free in the host country due to being afraid. This feels like an exaggeration to me, although I'm open to hearing specifics to the contrary. I know of (non resident) immigrants who delay medical visits and treatments until they get back to their home country, but flying home (spending a good deal of money on air fare) for just a stomach ache sounds pound foolish, which immigrants generally aren't.
    - unixhero 4y ago
      It happened, that's all I can say. At times banality knows no limits.

paxys 4y ago

These companies literally do not want to hire competent people, because they know they won't stick around. Their business model is to hire the absolute bottom of the barrel engineers, pay them the tech equivalent of minimum wage, and sell "consulting services" to overseas firms that don't know any better.