3 ms·

First, I humbly recommend you stop accusing others of being "programmed" in negative ways. It's presumptuious and makes me wonder if you're asking in good faith

First, I humbly recommend you stop accusing others of being "programmed" in negative ways. It's presumptuious and makes me wonder if you're asking in good faith. Second, I would not end comments with "what the fuck happened" as it sounds condescending, as if you're on the "good side" looking down on the others and shaking your head. With that out of the way, I think hard work is great. Making something cool is what gets me up and to work every day. What I think isn't great is being commanded to be "hardcore" and work at "high intensity for long hours." To me, that implies having to work for more than a typical work day and with little slack for any hiccups. Add to that the expectation that anything less than "exceptional performance" is a failing grade. Taken together it strikes me as a recipe for burnout and anxiety. At a minimum I don't see how it's possible to have any sort of work life balance in that arrangement. Jobs with that level of intensity are fine if the rewards are there. That's been my life for a while, working on an indie game. I don't think that's the case for Twitter. I also think it's a raw deal for a boss to walk in one day and completely flip the expectations. Of course fairness has nothing to do with it, it's Elon's company. Still, that doesn't maen he's free from criticism.

joegahona 4y ago
I have no problems with this email but many problems with his behavior. The ultimate authoritarian is clashing with what was a bloated staff that managed a product allegedly losing $4 million per day. There needs to be drastic changes. He is being extremely transparent that their culture and previous ways of working are changing and offering a generous package to people if they don't like what they hear. I agree with you that it's a recipe for burnout and anxiety and turnover, which has plagued his other companies. Many things can be true simultaneously. Many of the Elon criticisms are valid: Cruel and puerile behavior on Twitter, shockingly bad product decisions that any associate PM would avoid. Many of the criticisms are unclear: dismantling of teams like "Responsible AI," which sounds like a navel-gazing college course, not an organization in a company. Many of the criticisms are stupid: Cutting free meals that nobody was eating, implementing return-to-office.
adamrezich 4y ago
> First, I humbly recommend you stop accusing others of being "programmed" in negative ways. It's presumptuious and makes me wonder if you're asking in good faith. Second, I would not end comments with "what the fuck happened" as it sounds condescending, as if you're on the "good side" looking down on the others and shaking your head. I'm observing a noticeable societal shift that I have directly experienced occurring within my lifetime, and I have a hard time believing that this shift is wholly organic. like I said elsewhere in the thread, this demoralization and disintegration of innately self-evident core values like "working hard to make a good thing good is good" is exactly how I would poison the well of an adversarial nation that I wanted to destabilize at the foundational level. it's quite nice to see some pushback against this. > What I think isn't great is being commanded to be "hardcore" and work at "high intensity for long hours." > Jobs with that level of intensity are fine if the rewards are there. That's been my life for a while, working on an indie game. I don't think that's the case for Twitter. I'm confused. you're an indie game developer, and I don't know the details of your team and project, but that entire field is basically built on hard work, long hours, high-intensity effort, and yet you find it fulfilling, despite the great personal risk usually associated, especially being indie. so why do you think it's impossible that someone else would find a job of this level of intensity but cranked up a notch, but compensated for with a large salary and lavish benefits, to be a compelling job prospect? like I'm with you, that proposition doesn't sound like a great personal fit for me, either—but why is it unthinkable that anyone would find the job compelling? you know as well as I do that, on some level, the entire video game development industry "preys on" developers' love of the medium and feeling of satisfaction caused by creating something cool after oftentimes plural years of development before having a concrete product to show for all the work you put into it. why is that OK for the video game industry, but not for social media companies? > I also think it's a raw deal for a boss to walk in one day and completely flip the expectations. I can see this, but also, how long was the Musk buyout deal in the works? how many months? of course, all the while, almost literally everyone on HN told themselves and everyone else, over and over again in comments threads, the deal will never happen, there's no way it'll go through, ahaha look at this new roadblock that came up, Elon will never get past this one! (seriously, go back in the archives and take a look at some of those threads, the self-assured self-righteous agreement that the deal would never happen is pretty crazy to look back on now.) any Twitter employee who was ideologically opposed to Elon Musk had plenty of time to look for another job in the case that he actually completed the buyout. of course I'm sympathetic to anyone suddenly losing their job, to some extent, but this sympathy is balanced out somewhat by vindication at seeing bloated "tech companies" finally getting some fat trimmed such that someone who works at a company like Twitter—making much more money than I do at my job—actually has to work hard to earn the paycheck and benefits they enjoy.

joegahona 4y ago

I have no problems with this email but many problems with his behavior. The ultimate authoritarian is clashing with what was a bloated staff that managed a product allegedly losing $4 million per day. There needs to be drastic changes. He is being extremely transparent that their culture and previous ways of working are changing and offering a generous package to people if they don't like what they hear. I agree with you that it's a recipe for burnout and anxiety and turnover, which has plagued his other companies. Many things can be true simultaneously. Many of the Elon criticisms are valid: Cruel and puerile behavior on Twitter, shockingly bad product decisions that any associate PM would avoid. Many of the criticisms are unclear: dismantling of teams like "Responsible AI," which sounds like a navel-gazing college course, not an organization in a company. Many of the criticisms are stupid: Cutting free meals that nobody was eating, implementing return-to-office.

adamrezich 4y ago

> First, I humbly recommend you stop accusing others of being "programmed" in negative ways. It's presumptuious and makes me wonder if you're asking in good faith. Second, I would not end comments with "what the fuck happened" as it sounds condescending, as if you're on the "good side" looking down on the others and shaking your head. I'm observing a noticeable societal shift that I have directly experienced occurring within my lifetime, and I have a hard time believing that this shift is wholly organic. like I said elsewhere in the thread, this demoralization and disintegration of innately self-evident core values like "working hard to make a good thing good is good" is exactly how I would poison the well of an adversarial nation that I wanted to destabilize at the foundational level. it's quite nice to see some pushback against this. > What I think isn't great is being commanded to be "hardcore" and work at "high intensity for long hours." > Jobs with that level of intensity are fine if the rewards are there. That's been my life for a while, working on an indie game. I don't think that's the case for Twitter. I'm confused. you're an indie game developer, and I don't know the details of your team and project, but that entire field is basically built on hard work, long hours, high-intensity effort, and yet you find it fulfilling, despite the great personal risk usually associated, especially being indie. so why do you think it's impossible that someone else would find a job of this level of intensity but cranked up a notch, but compensated for with a large salary and lavish benefits, to be a compelling job prospect? like I'm with you, that proposition doesn't sound like a great personal fit for me, either—but why is it unthinkable that anyone would find the job compelling? you know as well as I do that, on some level, the entire video game development industry "preys on" developers' love of the medium and feeling of satisfaction caused by creating something cool after oftentimes plural years of development before having a concrete product to show for all the work you put into it. why is that OK for the video game industry, but not for social media companies? > I also think it's a raw deal for a boss to walk in one day and completely flip the expectations. I can see this, but also, how long was the Musk buyout deal in the works? how many months? of course, all the while, almost literally everyone on HN told themselves and everyone else, over and over again in comments threads, the deal will never happen, there's no way it'll go through, ahaha look at this new roadblock that came up, Elon will never get past this one! (seriously, go back in the archives and take a look at some of those threads, the self-assured self-righteous agreement that the deal would never happen is pretty crazy to look back on now.) any Twitter employee who was ideologically opposed to Elon Musk had plenty of time to look for another job in the case that he actually completed the buyout. of course I'm sympathetic to anyone suddenly losing their job, to some extent, but this sympathy is balanced out somewhat by vindication at seeing bloated "tech companies" finally getting some fat trimmed such that someone who works at a company like Twitter—making much more money than I do at my job—actually has to work hard to earn the paycheck and benefits they enjoy.