10 ms·

People objected to the TSA, but the political climate in 2002 was too much in favor of it.

pjc50 4y ago
Sure, but that was then and this is now. I guess it's simply not possible to get it back into the "discourse" as a thing that should be changed.
- whatwherewhy 4y ago
  It's a worldwide thing. EU airport security is even stricter and they're not going to let go now.
  - felipelemos 4y ago
    The airport security in Europe and South America is not even close to how it is in USA.
    - mcronce 4y ago
      My sample size is two - one departing flight each from LHR and DUB - but they were way less painful experiences than any airport I've flown out of in the US.
  - martopix 4y ago
    The few times I was in the US I definitely did not have the feeling that EU is more strict.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Aside from the shoes and scanner thing (absent TSA-Pre) in the US, as someone who has traveled a lot in both Europe and the US, is seems pretty much a wash. I've had silly things like a bladeless corkscrew confiscated in Spain but I seem to have the same generally low rate of hand inspections etc. (usually related to having a bunch of cables/electronics jammed together in a bag) in both areas.
  - blkhawk 4y ago
    Yes so strict that we don't even do the shoe thing or the crotch grab thing here.
    - stavros 4y ago
      While I agree that the US is stricter, the EU has gotten strict as well. There are millimeter-wave scanners in many airports (usually mandatory with an opt-out pat-down, but in some airports you have a chance to just go through the metal detectors), sometimes they make you take your shoes off, X-raying takes ages. The US is stricter only in the sense that the TSA is everywhere all the time, whereas in Europe it's only some places some of the time. At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). It used to be that you'd go through a metal detector and be done with it, and that's still the way it is in, for example, Greece. My local airport (second largest in the country, but still no SFO) gets you from the entrance to the gate in less than ten minutes. I don't know why we've accepted this bullshit. It's not as if some malicious actor couldn't just hit a train or bus instead and kill just as many people, yet we accept all this hassle and invasion of privacy for exactly zero benefit.
      - whatwherewhy 4y ago
        > At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). No but the people putting the suitcase - that you had to take apart yourself - through the scanner will steal things from you - my credit card and powerbank went missing during the process this summer.
        stavros 4y ago
        What do you mean take apart? When taking your laptop out? I just close it again, that limits opportunistic theft by a lot (though you're the first person I hear having stuff stolen from).
        4y ago
  - Max-q 4y ago
    In most European countries this is done by private companies and they are really efficient. Rarely waiting time is more than 5-10 minutes in.
- Frost1x 4y ago
  The problem is we have a culture that often overly accepts protectionist and defensive systems and is highly averse to any risk what-so-ever. When these sorts of systems are put in place, they become far more difficult to remove than erect, even if they're shown to be ineffective, wasteful, or actually add to risk. You're not going to see many politicians vote against such systems because the second some incident occurs, their stance against protectionism will be crucified by opponents and gobbled up by the general public. This is one reason why the US defense budget continues to balloon. Anyone who pushes to reduce spending can easily be painted to the masses as someone who doesn't care about or want to secure your safety. This dynamic also plays into use of fear for power, so those in power drum up fears and explode risk in their own interest.
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    > protectionist and defensive systems and is highly averse to any risk what-so-ever ... like masks. But seriously, a lot of the same people that objected to the TSA madness also objected to the mask mandates.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      > But seriously, a lot of the same people that objected to the TSA madness also objected to the mask mandates. But this time a lot of people who didn't object to the TSA objected to masks.
      - jtbayly 4y ago
        Taking off your shoes once (maybe twice) a year vs putting on a mask multiple times every day. I’m not surprised more people actually objected to the latter.
- insane_dreamer 4y ago
  That's the danger with putting measures like this in place as a reaction to a shocking event. Once done it's nearly impossible to undo (Patriot Act, NSA Surveillance Act, etc., are more good examples). It reminds me of Norway's response to the Utoya massacre. IIRC in a speech at the time the gov said they weren't going to change their system because of one terrorist. (I might be remembering wrong but that's what stuck with me.) The US on the other hand took the opportunity to ram through as many "security" provisions through as possible which are with us to this day and can no longer be questioned as to whether they are indeed necessary or helpful.
- bagels 4y ago
  Even if it was in the discourse, nobody wants to be blamed as the person who got rid of the TSA when the next shoe bomber or whatever pops up.
  - jtbayly 4y ago
    We must do something! This is something, I will do it! Fill in useless mask mandates or shoe removal as you see fit.
mullen 4y ago
Everyone is against government security until a bunch of guys fly airplanes into buildings.

Sure, but that was then and this is now. I guess it's simply not possible to get it back into the "discourse" as a thing that should be changed.

whatwherewhy 4y ago
It's a worldwide thing. EU airport security is even stricter and they're not going to let go now.
- felipelemos 4y ago
  The airport security in Europe and South America is not even close to how it is in USA.
  - mcronce 4y ago
    My sample size is two - one departing flight each from LHR and DUB - but they were way less painful experiences than any airport I've flown out of in the US.
- martopix 4y ago
  The few times I was in the US I definitely did not have the feeling that EU is more strict.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Aside from the shoes and scanner thing (absent TSA-Pre) in the US, as someone who has traveled a lot in both Europe and the US, is seems pretty much a wash. I've had silly things like a bladeless corkscrew confiscated in Spain but I seem to have the same generally low rate of hand inspections etc. (usually related to having a bunch of cables/electronics jammed together in a bag) in both areas.
- blkhawk 4y ago
  Yes so strict that we don't even do the shoe thing or the crotch grab thing here.
  - stavros 4y ago
    While I agree that the US is stricter, the EU has gotten strict as well. There are millimeter-wave scanners in many airports (usually mandatory with an opt-out pat-down, but in some airports you have a chance to just go through the metal detectors), sometimes they make you take your shoes off, X-raying takes ages. The US is stricter only in the sense that the TSA is everywhere all the time, whereas in Europe it's only some places some of the time. At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). It used to be that you'd go through a metal detector and be done with it, and that's still the way it is in, for example, Greece. My local airport (second largest in the country, but still no SFO) gets you from the entrance to the gate in less than ten minutes. I don't know why we've accepted this bullshit. It's not as if some malicious actor couldn't just hit a train or bus instead and kill just as many people, yet we accept all this hassle and invasion of privacy for exactly zero benefit.
    - whatwherewhy 4y ago
      > At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US). No but the people putting the suitcase - that you had to take apart yourself - through the scanner will steal things from you - my credit card and powerbank went missing during the process this summer.
      - stavros 4y ago
        What do you mean take apart? When taking your laptop out? I just close it again, that limits opportunistic theft by a lot (though you're the first person I hear having stuff stolen from).
        4y ago
- Max-q 4y ago
  In most European countries this is done by private companies and they are really efficient. Rarely waiting time is more than 5-10 minutes in.
Frost1x 4y ago
The problem is we have a culture that often overly accepts protectionist and defensive systems and is highly averse to any risk what-so-ever. When these sorts of systems are put in place, they become far more difficult to remove than erect, even if they're shown to be ineffective, wasteful, or actually add to risk. You're not going to see many politicians vote against such systems because the second some incident occurs, their stance against protectionism will be crucified by opponents and gobbled up by the general public. This is one reason why the US defense budget continues to balloon. Anyone who pushes to reduce spending can easily be painted to the masses as someone who doesn't care about or want to secure your safety. This dynamic also plays into use of fear for power, so those in power drum up fears and explode risk in their own interest.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  > protectionist and defensive systems and is highly averse to any risk what-so-ever ... like masks. But seriously, a lot of the same people that objected to the TSA madness also objected to the mask mandates.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    > But seriously, a lot of the same people that objected to the TSA madness also objected to the mask mandates. But this time a lot of people who didn't object to the TSA objected to masks.
    - jtbayly 4y ago
      Taking off your shoes once (maybe twice) a year vs putting on a mask multiple times every day. I’m not surprised more people actually objected to the latter.
insane_dreamer 4y ago
That's the danger with putting measures like this in place as a reaction to a shocking event. Once done it's nearly impossible to undo (Patriot Act, NSA Surveillance Act, etc., are more good examples). It reminds me of Norway's response to the Utoya massacre. IIRC in a speech at the time the gov said they weren't going to change their system because of one terrorist. (I might be remembering wrong but that's what stuck with me.) The US on the other hand took the opportunity to ram through as many "security" provisions through as possible which are with us to this day and can no longer be questioned as to whether they are indeed necessary or helpful.
bagels 4y ago
Even if it was in the discourse, nobody wants to be blamed as the person who got rid of the TSA when the next shoe bomber or whatever pops up.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  We must do something! This is something, I will do it! Fill in useless mask mandates or shoe removal as you see fit.

mullen 4y ago

Everyone is against government security until a bunch of guys fly airplanes into buildings.