5 ms·

>If you want to pick your seat, pay for it. Ya its called a ticket, which are typically received in exchange for money. Should airlines also charge a disembark

>If you want to pick your seat, pay for it. Ya its called a ticket, which are typically received in exchange for money. Should airlines also charge a disembarking fee? pay up or don't get off the plane? Seems like that's more money left on the table, captive audience and all.

pxx 4y ago
You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for. Disregarding the kidnapping part of your straw man: we also do already charge for priority disembark. This is why premium seating is typically near the boarding door.
- thereisnospork 4y ago
  > You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for. The service I'm paying for includes an assigned seat, just like my ticket to the movies does. Its not justifiable for an airline - A federally regulated industry, not some mom and pop local business - to intentionally degrade the quality of their product to nickle and dime their customers. Lets expand your premise a little: Should toll roads charge families extra tolls if they are in the same car together? There's revenue there - a family is certainly getting more use out of the "privledge" of traveling together than two strangers, or one person. Should NFL stadiums, movie theaters, concerts charge extra for booking seats that are adjacent? Revenue and 'Value' there as well. How about hotels? Trying to book 3 rooms for a company-conference visit, it'll be $100 for the first room, $250 for the second, and $500 for the 3rd.
  - pxx 4y ago
    > federally regulated industry Regulations are primarily there for safety concerns, not you complaining about what is honestly a non-issue. If you don't want to pay for premium seats just don't pay for them?? But on that note, airline deregulation in the US has been the best thing that has ever happened to air travel. It is now far, far more accessible to travel by air. The revealed customer preference is that very few, if any, people want to go back to being forced to pay the old fares, even if the seats were bigger and the service was better. > The service I'm paying for includes an assigned seat, just like my ticket to the movies does Frontier is pretty upfront about this. You certainly have absolutely no guarantee of sitting next to somebody without paying for it one way or another. You get a seat. You don't get to choose your seat. Some theatres also do charge extra for choosing seats, and the ones that don't market themselves as premium theatres. > some varying strawmen I certainly don't think any of these techniques should be regulated. I can certainly see a surcharge if you require adjoining rooms in a hotel.
    - thereisnospork 4y ago
      >Regulations are primarily there for safety concerns, not you complaining about what is honestly a non-issue. If you don't want to pay for premium seats just don't pay for them?? Regulations are also there to curtail monopolistic or "anti-competitive" behavior. What is nickel and diming people who don't have an alternative anything but abusing a monopolistic position? In a healthily competitive market[0] this could be adequately adjusted for. > some varying strawmen Politely refrain from cursory and trite dismissals - I have engaged with your points in good faith but you do not seem to be doing me the same courtesy. Why is it you consider these to be either unrealistic or patently unacceptable but airlines splitting up families is neither? [0]E.g. movie theaters have majorly moved over the last decade or so to assigned seating, because this provides a better experience -- a competitive advantage and because trying to rent seek via price discrimination would see them lose customers.
ceejayoz 4y ago
The ticket in this case is for a flight, not a particular seat on that flight. Think of it like buying lawn seating at a concert. Best spot is taken? Tough luck.
- mindslight 4y ago
  With a general admission concert ticket, your grouping still remains intact. I haven't flown in a while (thankfully), but the original comment makes it sound like they sell you an unassigned seat ticket, but then assign you a specific sometime down the road, perhaps maliciously.
  - pxx 4y ago
    The concert analogy is close but not perfect because the problem is that grouping necessarily puts you into premium seats. If they can sell aisle and window seats at a premium, you can't allow people to group for free without putting people in relatively more premium seats for free. The scale of airline seats (on a single flight) and concert tickets is incredibly different anyway, and different forms of price discrimination are required.
    - mindslight 4y ago
      Southwest is an example of general admission applied to airline seating. By the time you're calling non-middle seats "premium", we've already lost. We should aim to have markets that provide abundance rather than focusing on extraction through things like price discrimination. It's indefensible that they sell seats which then aren't actually big enough to fit a person, whether it be their legs or their arms - this is essentially the entire setup of "middle seats". If they wanted to charge linearly based on dimensions, I'd understand that. But the general pattern with price discrimination is that they charge outsized amounts for slightly more use, because they know they have you over a barrel. See also: dinosaur ISP data caps.
      - partdavid 4y ago
        There's no airline seat that can't "fit a person", that's hyperbole. Fit any person, maybe. Fit without touching the person next to you, maybe. Fit without negotiating who uses the armrest or shared spaces with a stranger, maybe. I fly frequently, I'm 6'2", I'm obese. I fit into a middle seat. Don't love it, it's not the nicest, but it's less cramped than any public transit seat and most theater seats.

pxx 4y ago

You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for. Disregarding the kidnapping part of your straw man: we also do already charge for priority disembark. This is why premium seating is typically near the boarding door.

thereisnospork 4y ago
> You're still going to get to where you want to go and you'll still get a seat. That's the service you're paying for. The service I'm paying for includes an assigned seat, just like my ticket to the movies does. Its not justifiable for an airline - A federally regulated industry, not some mom and pop local business - to intentionally degrade the quality of their product to nickle and dime their customers. Lets expand your premise a little: Should toll roads charge families extra tolls if they are in the same car together? There's revenue there - a family is certainly getting more use out of the "privledge" of traveling together than two strangers, or one person. Should NFL stadiums, movie theaters, concerts charge extra for booking seats that are adjacent? Revenue and 'Value' there as well. How about hotels? Trying to book 3 rooms for a company-conference visit, it'll be $100 for the first room, $250 for the second, and $500 for the 3rd.
- pxx 4y ago
  > federally regulated industry Regulations are primarily there for safety concerns, not you complaining about what is honestly a non-issue. If you don't want to pay for premium seats just don't pay for them?? But on that note, airline deregulation in the US has been the best thing that has ever happened to air travel. It is now far, far more accessible to travel by air. The revealed customer preference is that very few, if any, people want to go back to being forced to pay the old fares, even if the seats were bigger and the service was better. > The service I'm paying for includes an assigned seat, just like my ticket to the movies does Frontier is pretty upfront about this. You certainly have absolutely no guarantee of sitting next to somebody without paying for it one way or another. You get a seat. You don't get to choose your seat. Some theatres also do charge extra for choosing seats, and the ones that don't market themselves as premium theatres. > some varying strawmen I certainly don't think any of these techniques should be regulated. I can certainly see a surcharge if you require adjoining rooms in a hotel.
  - thereisnospork 4y ago
    >Regulations are primarily there for safety concerns, not you complaining about what is honestly a non-issue. If you don't want to pay for premium seats just don't pay for them?? Regulations are also there to curtail monopolistic or "anti-competitive" behavior. What is nickel and diming people who don't have an alternative anything but abusing a monopolistic position? In a healthily competitive market[0] this could be adequately adjusted for. > some varying strawmen Politely refrain from cursory and trite dismissals - I have engaged with your points in good faith but you do not seem to be doing me the same courtesy. Why is it you consider these to be either unrealistic or patently unacceptable but airlines splitting up families is neither? [0]E.g. movie theaters have majorly moved over the last decade or so to assigned seating, because this provides a better experience -- a competitive advantage and because trying to rent seek via price discrimination would see them lose customers.

ceejayoz 4y ago

The ticket in this case is for a flight, not a particular seat on that flight. Think of it like buying lawn seating at a concert. Best spot is taken? Tough luck.

mindslight 4y ago
With a general admission concert ticket, your grouping still remains intact. I haven't flown in a while (thankfully), but the original comment makes it sound like they sell you an unassigned seat ticket, but then assign you a specific sometime down the road, perhaps maliciously.
- pxx 4y ago
  The concert analogy is close but not perfect because the problem is that grouping necessarily puts you into premium seats. If they can sell aisle and window seats at a premium, you can't allow people to group for free without putting people in relatively more premium seats for free. The scale of airline seats (on a single flight) and concert tickets is incredibly different anyway, and different forms of price discrimination are required.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    Southwest is an example of general admission applied to airline seating. By the time you're calling non-middle seats "premium", we've already lost. We should aim to have markets that provide abundance rather than focusing on extraction through things like price discrimination. It's indefensible that they sell seats which then aren't actually big enough to fit a person, whether it be their legs or their arms - this is essentially the entire setup of "middle seats". If they wanted to charge linearly based on dimensions, I'd understand that. But the general pattern with price discrimination is that they charge outsized amounts for slightly more use, because they know they have you over a barrel. See also: dinosaur ISP data caps.
    - partdavid 4y ago
      There's no airline seat that can't "fit a person", that's hyperbole. Fit any person, maybe. Fit without touching the person next to you, maybe. Fit without negotiating who uses the armrest or shared spaces with a stranger, maybe. I fly frequently, I'm 6'2", I'm obese. I fit into a middle seat. Don't love it, it's not the nicest, but it's less cramped than any public transit seat and most theater seats.