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I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight

I don't understand why automakers aren't taking traditional small ICE vehicles and throwing the electric components in it. Besides having to spread the weight of batteries out a bit, is it really much harder (I'm not an engineer by any means)? I'd love to see an EV version of the boring Corollas; Civics; Fits; Imprezas; or Yaris out there, instead of them doing... whatever it is they're doing (mostly redesigning everything bigger and, in my opinion, uglier). I think to me, and to a lot of people, a car is just a car to get them from A to B, and don't want it to set them back $30-$40k. Except for a few Chevy Bolts and Nissan Leafs out there, the vehicles on the road seem to be Teslas and larger, fancier makes from traditional ICE manufacturers.

Tagbert 4y ago
An ICEV chassis does not make a very good EV. The ICEVs that have been converted to EV, like the Ford Focus EV, don’t have enough room for a larger battery and have usually only had a battery with around 70-100 mile range. The battery usually intrudes into the cargo area reducing the space for luggage and groceries. Another problem is that the EV conversion adds a lot to the price. Then at the dealership, customers see an expensive Focus EV sitting next to a less expensive ICEV Focus and they tend to choose the less expensive option.
- quantumfissure 4y ago
  Serious question, as I don't know much about vehicle physics: Why not just put a bunch in the (now empty) engine compartment and gas tank area to spread them out a bit? Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank?
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    The Nissan Leaf is about a close as you can get on a chassis built for ICEVs. It uses a platform shared with the Versa and several other Nissans. The electric motor and related electronics and service components (like air conditioner) are where the ICE engine would be and the area under the back seat and luggage area are filled with batteries. I believe it can get up to 150 mile range.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank? A 2018 Fiat 500e (electric, with a tiny battery bank good for only ~90 miles) weighs almost 3000 pounds, whereas the same car with ICE is ~2400lb. So yes, electric is a lot heavier. And that Fiat battery bank is mostly too small to be practical (had two of these on lease, gone now) so a a larger bank with usable range is even heavier.
photochemsyn 4y ago
Two other styles that would make for great conversions are the compact and highly reliable Toyota pickup trucks introduced in the 1980s, and the late 1980s rally-style cars, i.e. the BMW E30 M3 etc. A decent minivan would also be nice, although the new VW id Buzz looks interesting (older minivans had pretty bad crash outcomes I think).
Plasmoid2000ad 4y ago
I think it is hard, as the obvious place to but the batteries in the car is as low as possible and between the axles. In a small ICE vehicle - depending on your definition of small, there's not that much space usually between the axles. Then with the batteries between the axles, there is not much space just underneath the seats. Look at the e-Golf battery pack as an example https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFCKKzUCRRs/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFCKKzUCRRs/maxresdefault.jpg You could in theory put batteries in the Engine compartment and Boot, but i think beyond DIYers this is unpopular because of the handling effects, loss of luggage space and, I assume, safety in a crash. The BMW i3 is I think the best example of what type of small car could be converted to an EV. It would have to be a small vehicle with large wheelbase, with small wheels pushed to the corners to make maximum space for battery modules. It would convert a small hatchback into a crossover once the height was increased so the battery pack wasn't too low the ground or taking up leg room. I can think of two vehicles where an automaker tried, and didn't increase the height much the car is recognizably the same - the VW e-Up and Smart ForTwo Electric - which I think are both bad range wise. Times when the automakers also increased the height would be the Peugeot e-208 and Opel Corsa-e (same underlying car) and Mini Electric - but I think there was a lot of planning ahead in those designs to have platforms that could be EVs rather than retrofit of existing platform.

Tagbert 4y ago

An ICEV chassis does not make a very good EV. The ICEVs that have been converted to EV, like the Ford Focus EV, don’t have enough room for a larger battery and have usually only had a battery with around 70-100 mile range. The battery usually intrudes into the cargo area reducing the space for luggage and groceries. Another problem is that the EV conversion adds a lot to the price. Then at the dealership, customers see an expensive Focus EV sitting next to a less expensive ICEV Focus and they tend to choose the less expensive option.

quantumfissure 4y ago
Serious question, as I don't know much about vehicle physics: Why not just put a bunch in the (now empty) engine compartment and gas tank area to spread them out a bit? Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank?
- Tagbert 4y ago
  The Nissan Leaf is about a close as you can get on a chassis built for ICEVs. It uses a platform shared with the Versa and several other Nissans. The electric motor and related electronics and service components (like air conditioner) are where the ICE engine would be and the area under the back seat and luggage area are filled with batteries. I believe it can get up to 150 mile range.
- jjav 4y ago
  > Do they weigh a lot more then a fully built ICE engine+transmission/clutch assembly+full gas tank? A 2018 Fiat 500e (electric, with a tiny battery bank good for only ~90 miles) weighs almost 3000 pounds, whereas the same car with ICE is ~2400lb. So yes, electric is a lot heavier. And that Fiat battery bank is mostly too small to be practical (had two of these on lease, gone now) so a a larger bank with usable range is even heavier.

photochemsyn 4y ago

Two other styles that would make for great conversions are the compact and highly reliable Toyota pickup trucks introduced in the 1980s, and the late 1980s rally-style cars, i.e. the BMW E30 M3 etc. A decent minivan would also be nice, although the new VW id Buzz looks interesting (older minivans had pretty bad crash outcomes I think).

Plasmoid2000ad 4y ago

I think it is hard, as the obvious place to but the batteries in the car is as low as possible and between the axles. In a small ICE vehicle - depending on your definition of small, there's not that much space usually between the axles. Then with the batteries between the axles, there is not much space just underneath the seats. Look at the e-Golf battery pack as an example https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFCKKzUCRRs/maxresdefault.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DFCKKzUCRRs/maxresdefault.jpg You could in theory put batteries in the Engine compartment and Boot, but i think beyond DIYers this is unpopular because of the handling effects, loss of luggage space and, I assume, safety in a crash. The BMW i3 is I think the best example of what type of small car could be converted to an EV. It would have to be a small vehicle with large wheelbase, with small wheels pushed to the corners to make maximum space for battery modules. It would convert a small hatchback into a crossover once the height was increased so the battery pack wasn't too low the ground or taking up leg room. I can think of two vehicles where an automaker tried, and didn't increase the height much the car is recognizably the same - the VW e-Up and Smart ForTwo Electric - which I think are both bad range wise. Times when the automakers also increased the height would be the Peugeot e-208 and Opel Corsa-e (same underlying car) and Mini Electric - but I think there was a lot of planning ahead in those designs to have platforms that could be EVs rather than retrofit of existing platform.