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If it makes you feel any better, it’s extremely tiresome to a different cohort to see people make the claim that the future of finance is stuffing cash under th

If it makes you feel any better, it’s extremely tiresome to a different cohort to see people make the claim that the future of finance is stuffing cash under the mattress and burying gold bars in their backyards

birracerveza 4y ago
IMO it's the future of finance because you own your coins. Nothing else aside from crypto allows me to do so in digital form. You are free to disagree, even if you think it's digital beanie babies or whatever. Luckily in this case you can vote with your wallet, as I did.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  Real question - why do you believe that "owning" your own coins matters? Further - why do you believe that ownership is related at all to the fact that you can keep ledger entry with your wallet on it? Ownership !== ledger entries. Ownership is a shared concept enforced by social constructs. It is not a fucking technical matter solved by a ledger. EX: You sign a contract to send me 1 bitcoin in exchange for my car. I give you the car, but you never send me the bitcoin. Who owns the coin? Because the ledger is going to let you spend it, but the courts are going to give me your shit. Same in reverse - I get your coin and then drive off with the car. Do I own the coin now? Because again - the ledger says yes, but our concept of ownership includes the idea of dispute and fraud - and the ledger doesn't fucking know or care. Basically - your idea of "ownership" being limited to "my wallet, my coins" is both limited, childish, and insufficient.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - giaour 4y ago
    This is why the car of the future will only start when presented with a key NFT. /s
    - blitzar 4y ago
      Not your keys, not your car.
  - birracerveza 4y ago
    You're still bound by meat-space and the rules of the universe. If someone gets in your house and beats you with a $5 wrench until you give him your seed phrase, you're still relying on the police to catch the thief, ledger or not. However, you're also not bound by arbitrary rules by arbitrary people that may or may not hold their end of the deal. YOU own your Bitcoin, and until YOU send it to someone it's YOURS. On the other hand, money in the bank is "yours", but they can freeze your money anytime for whatever reason, or change the terms because whatever. "It doesn't happen", sure. Until it does. And fyi "then it means you deserved it" is an excuse that reeks of first-world privilege. Even if Bitcoin won't become the world currency, the concept of "ownership" can be useful elsewhere, especially games. Lots of games have "gems" or whatever currency the game uses. But you don't "own" these "gems", they're just a number on a database that you paid the company for. Not unlike Bitcoin, yes, but you have the added bonus of being able to exchange them freely. It's a net upgrade. The same applies to skins: you pay Epic Games for a Fortnite skin but... it's stuck there. You cannot trade it because you don't "own" it. With NFTs you do. I'd spend $10 on a skin if they gave me an NFT that I could eventually sell instead of a database entry. Out of the two options, the Postgres database is more of a scam if you think about it.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      Why would game companies want you to be able to resell their in-game cosmetics? They could make that possible now, but don't.
      - AlexandrB 4y ago
        Steam makes it possible, but this has also created a gambling black market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmNy11Mn7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmNy11Mn7g Anything that can be easily traded for currency can also act as currency so you quickly fall down the KYC rabbit hole if you want to - for example - keep children from gambling.
    - AlexandrB 4y ago
      I suggest reading Man's Search for Meaning[1]. That book made me realize that almost all freedoms are contingent on a functioning and just society. No amount of blockchain technology can change that - you will always be bound by arbitrary rules made by arbitrary people. The only freedom that might be absolute is the content of your own thoughts and how you perceive and react to your conditions. So the question is: is money on a blockchain any more yours in a meaningful sense that money in a bank? Sure there's a record on a ledger that you have some bitcoin, but the value of that currency can be manipulated, you can be coerced into transferring those funds to someone else, or your currency can be blacklisted[2]. With the example of games, you can be banned or the item you "own" can be banned arbitrarily as well. Nothing on blockchain prevents the game from keeping a blacklist of items that are not allowed to be used. Sure you can trade stuff (maybe), but that's already possible on e.g. Steam. IMHO, one of the biggest outcomes of that has been illegal gambling rings that use CS: GO items as a proxy for currency - which is hardly a positive development. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning [2] https://cryptoslate.com/despite-tornado-cash-fiasco-bitcoin-sv-launches-blacklist-manager-tool/ https://cryptoslate.com/despite-tornado-cash-fiasco-bitcoin-...

birracerveza 4y ago

IMO it's the future of finance because you own your coins. Nothing else aside from crypto allows me to do so in digital form. You are free to disagree, even if you think it's digital beanie babies or whatever. Luckily in this case you can vote with your wallet, as I did.

horsawlarway 4y ago
Real question - why do you believe that "owning" your own coins matters? Further - why do you believe that ownership is related at all to the fact that you can keep ledger entry with your wallet on it? Ownership !== ledger entries. Ownership is a shared concept enforced by social constructs. It is not a fucking technical matter solved by a ledger. EX: You sign a contract to send me 1 bitcoin in exchange for my car. I give you the car, but you never send me the bitcoin. Who owns the coin? Because the ledger is going to let you spend it, but the courts are going to give me your shit. Same in reverse - I get your coin and then drive off with the car. Do I own the coin now? Because again - the ledger says yes, but our concept of ownership includes the idea of dispute and fraud - and the ledger doesn't fucking know or care. Basically - your idea of "ownership" being limited to "my wallet, my coins" is both limited, childish, and insufficient.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- giaour 4y ago
  This is why the car of the future will only start when presented with a key NFT. /s
  - blitzar 4y ago
    Not your keys, not your car.
- birracerveza 4y ago
  You're still bound by meat-space and the rules of the universe. If someone gets in your house and beats you with a $5 wrench until you give him your seed phrase, you're still relying on the police to catch the thief, ledger or not. However, you're also not bound by arbitrary rules by arbitrary people that may or may not hold their end of the deal. YOU own your Bitcoin, and until YOU send it to someone it's YOURS. On the other hand, money in the bank is "yours", but they can freeze your money anytime for whatever reason, or change the terms because whatever. "It doesn't happen", sure. Until it does. And fyi "then it means you deserved it" is an excuse that reeks of first-world privilege. Even if Bitcoin won't become the world currency, the concept of "ownership" can be useful elsewhere, especially games. Lots of games have "gems" or whatever currency the game uses. But you don't "own" these "gems", they're just a number on a database that you paid the company for. Not unlike Bitcoin, yes, but you have the added bonus of being able to exchange them freely. It's a net upgrade. The same applies to skins: you pay Epic Games for a Fortnite skin but... it's stuck there. You cannot trade it because you don't "own" it. With NFTs you do. I'd spend $10 on a skin if they gave me an NFT that I could eventually sell instead of a database entry. Out of the two options, the Postgres database is more of a scam if you think about it.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    Why would game companies want you to be able to resell their in-game cosmetics? They could make that possible now, but don't.
    - AlexandrB 4y ago
      Steam makes it possible, but this has also created a gambling black market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmNy11Mn7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmNy11Mn7g Anything that can be easily traded for currency can also act as currency so you quickly fall down the KYC rabbit hole if you want to - for example - keep children from gambling.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    I suggest reading Man's Search for Meaning[1]. That book made me realize that almost all freedoms are contingent on a functioning and just society. No amount of blockchain technology can change that - you will always be bound by arbitrary rules made by arbitrary people. The only freedom that might be absolute is the content of your own thoughts and how you perceive and react to your conditions. So the question is: is money on a blockchain any more yours in a meaningful sense that money in a bank? Sure there's a record on a ledger that you have some bitcoin, but the value of that currency can be manipulated, you can be coerced into transferring those funds to someone else, or your currency can be blacklisted[2]. With the example of games, you can be banned or the item you "own" can be banned arbitrarily as well. Nothing on blockchain prevents the game from keeping a blacklist of items that are not allowed to be used. Sure you can trade stuff (maybe), but that's already possible on e.g. Steam. IMHO, one of the biggest outcomes of that has been illegal gambling rings that use CS: GO items as a proxy for currency - which is hardly a positive development. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning [2] https://cryptoslate.com/despite-tornado-cash-fiasco-bitcoin-sv-launches-blacklist-manager-tool/ https://cryptoslate.com/despite-tornado-cash-fiasco-bitcoin-...