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> And they found that for Tesla in particular, issues with body hardware, steering suspension, paint and trim, and climate systems on the models were of most co

by njovin 4y ago

> And they found that for Tesla in particular, issues with body hardware, steering suspension, paint and trim, and climate systems on the models were of most concern. Rick and I tested the Model 3 a few years back and we found a lot of issues with fit and finish and parts on the inside of the car I wish they'd separate cosmetic issues from functional ones. IMO it's pointless to lump "paint is uneven" in with "steering doesn't work." Maybe they do in the actual report but it's paywalled. Anecdotally I've seen quite a few minor cosmetic non-driving-related issues with Teslas but overall they've been very reliable (not requiring any motor, brake steering, or suspension maintenance) for everyone I know who owns one.

kube-system 4y ago
Paint is not a cosmetic issue, failing paint can cause mechanical failure due to corrosion. Improvements in automotive coatings is the number one reason that cars aren’t “worn out” at 5 years and 50,000 miles like they did in the 70s.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Still not the same category as engine failure though
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Paint issues can cause problems much more severe in consequence and more expensive to repair than an engine failure. On the body, they may cause corrosion perforations and cause your vehicle to fail inspection. They may flake or peel and require expensive repainting. On structurally significant parts, a coating failure can do this: http://www.rustrepairinc.com/wp-content/gallery/tacoma/GQtFok1.jpg http://www.rustrepairinc.com/wp-content/gallery/tacoma/GQtFo...
    - FredPret 4y ago
      Here are some failure modes to consider: Paint fails: - parts rust - parts eventually fail - vehicle might bend in two or stop working altoghether - rust is slow, easily detectable by a mechanic. Takes months or years to do real damage Engine fails: - car won't go
      - kube-system 4y ago
        A squeaky belt can be an “engine problem”. A “paint failure” can be: the subframe rusts out and you crash. My point is that none of these categories can be entirely written off superficial.
        FredPret 4y ago
        Of course not, but in the mind of the consumer, who is financing the whole industry, some problems are problems, and some problems are annoyances
        kube-system 4y ago
        I understand the sentiment, but if I had bad paint, malfunctioning infotainment, or broken body hardware on a brand new car, it's not something that I would think "this is okay, I can put up with this". Cars are expensive and I think it's reasonable to expect to get 100% of what was paid for, or at the very minimum, name and shame them for quality issues.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  Every piece of metal on a modern car body is structural, so basically all corrosion is a structural/crash hazard!
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    This isn't correct - body panels are often not structural, yet comprise of 99% of the painted surface area you can actually observe on the car without removing any parts or lifting it. The paint application to the non-panel parts is almost a separate process.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  That's true, but a lot of paint issues are not so severe. Many are things like the white bumper not matching the rest of the car. That one is common across brands. Tesla's get a lot of scrutiny for dust nibs and uneven application. I'd bet its the minority that would have a functional impact.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    There are common mild issues in other categories as well. “Braking system issues” sound bad, but a common complaint is brake noise. “Transmission issues” could be hard shifts. “Engine problems” could be a squeaky belt or tensioner.
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      Depending on how the surveys work, things like "how do I setup billing for charging?" can show up as charging issues too. It makes sense, but it will create a weird skew between EVs and ICE vehicles. Everyone buying an ICE vehicle already knows how to use a gas station.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        There’s a lot of complaints that CR could probably disqualify, but there are so many that this process itself could lead to potential bias. CR is probably not what you want to read if you’re an enthusiast, but if you’re suggesting a car for your mom, it’s probably pretty dang accurate.
yreg 4y ago
For Model 3 in particular, the cars made in Shanghai which we receive in Europe have much much higher build quality (in terms of paint, pannel gaps, …) than the ones that used to be shipped from USA. Ultimately I think it takes a new company a few tries and building a few factories to learn how to mass produce cars with satisfactory quality of these "details". Berlin is also good afaik and I expect the same of Tesla's next production lines.
socialismisok 4y ago
I owned a Tesla for years and had to constantly have issues fixed, including: Door handles failing to open doors, door handles failing to present, clicking and jerking when steering far to the right or left, dashboard and infotainment turning off completely, poor seals causing the "wub wub" air pressure effect at highway speeds, charge port failures, a poorly seated and rusty windshield attachment, and a ton of fit and finish issues. Service centers were impossible to get time at, and they charged an arm and a leg to fix a problem only to have it come back a few months later. Tesla build quality is exceptionally poor.
bigbillheck 4y ago
If they can't get the paint right, why should I expect they got something more critical right?
- frumper 4y ago
  I mean, a quick google of Ford paint issues, or Toyota, or Honda all show common issues including Ford losing a big lawsuit. Who gets it right?

by njovin 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago

Paint is not a cosmetic issue, failing paint can cause mechanical failure due to corrosion. Improvements in automotive coatings is the number one reason that cars aren’t “worn out” at 5 years and 50,000 miles like they did in the 70s.

FredPret 4y ago
Still not the same category as engine failure though
- kube-system 4y ago
  Paint issues can cause problems much more severe in consequence and more expensive to repair than an engine failure. On the body, they may cause corrosion perforations and cause your vehicle to fail inspection. They may flake or peel and require expensive repainting. On structurally significant parts, a coating failure can do this: http://www.rustrepairinc.com/wp-content/gallery/tacoma/GQtFok1.jpg http://www.rustrepairinc.com/wp-content/gallery/tacoma/GQtFo...
  - FredPret 4y ago
    Here are some failure modes to consider: Paint fails: - parts rust - parts eventually fail - vehicle might bend in two or stop working altoghether - rust is slow, easily detectable by a mechanic. Takes months or years to do real damage Engine fails: - car won't go
    - kube-system 4y ago
      A squeaky belt can be an “engine problem”. A “paint failure” can be: the subframe rusts out and you crash. My point is that none of these categories can be entirely written off superficial.
      - FredPret 4y ago
        Of course not, but in the mind of the consumer, who is financing the whole industry, some problems are problems, and some problems are annoyances
        kube-system 4y ago
        I understand the sentiment, but if I had bad paint, malfunctioning infotainment, or broken body hardware on a brand new car, it's not something that I would think "this is okay, I can put up with this". Cars are expensive and I think it's reasonable to expect to get 100% of what was paid for, or at the very minimum, name and shame them for quality issues.
formerly_proven 4y ago
Every piece of metal on a modern car body is structural, so basically all corrosion is a structural/crash hazard!
- eptcyka 4y ago
  This isn't correct - body panels are often not structural, yet comprise of 99% of the painted surface area you can actually observe on the car without removing any parts or lifting it. The paint application to the non-panel parts is almost a separate process.
_ea1k 4y ago
That's true, but a lot of paint issues are not so severe. Many are things like the white bumper not matching the rest of the car. That one is common across brands. Tesla's get a lot of scrutiny for dust nibs and uneven application. I'd bet its the minority that would have a functional impact.
- kube-system 4y ago
  There are common mild issues in other categories as well. “Braking system issues” sound bad, but a common complaint is brake noise. “Transmission issues” could be hard shifts. “Engine problems” could be a squeaky belt or tensioner.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Depending on how the surveys work, things like "how do I setup billing for charging?" can show up as charging issues too. It makes sense, but it will create a weird skew between EVs and ICE vehicles. Everyone buying an ICE vehicle already knows how to use a gas station.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      There’s a lot of complaints that CR could probably disqualify, but there are so many that this process itself could lead to potential bias. CR is probably not what you want to read if you’re an enthusiast, but if you’re suggesting a car for your mom, it’s probably pretty dang accurate.

yreg 4y ago

For Model 3 in particular, the cars made in Shanghai which we receive in Europe have much much higher build quality (in terms of paint, pannel gaps, …) than the ones that used to be shipped from USA. Ultimately I think it takes a new company a few tries and building a few factories to learn how to mass produce cars with satisfactory quality of these "details". Berlin is also good afaik and I expect the same of Tesla's next production lines.

socialismisok 4y ago

I owned a Tesla for years and had to constantly have issues fixed, including: Door handles failing to open doors, door handles failing to present, clicking and jerking when steering far to the right or left, dashboard and infotainment turning off completely, poor seals causing the "wub wub" air pressure effect at highway speeds, charge port failures, a poorly seated and rusty windshield attachment, and a ton of fit and finish issues. Service centers were impossible to get time at, and they charged an arm and a leg to fix a problem only to have it come back a few months later. Tesla build quality is exceptionally poor.

bigbillheck 4y ago

If they can't get the paint right, why should I expect they got something more critical right?

frumper 4y ago
I mean, a quick google of Ford paint issues, or Toyota, or Honda all show common issues including Ford losing a big lawsuit. Who gets it right?