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Both my kids transitioned from Montessori to public school at 11 (grade 5) in the US. 13 and 16 now. + Love of learning and self-driven discovery + Top of cla

Both my kids transitioned from Montessori to public school at 11 (grade 5) in the US. 13 and 16 now. + Love of learning and self-driven discovery + Top of class in pretty much all subjects + Comfortable giving presentations + Comfortable working in groups + At ease working with younger students/children and essentially mentoring them + Excellent handwriting + Respect for teachers - Difficulty with testing that involves framing the questions in an intentionally deceptive manner - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social dynamics of public school - Tough for them to deal with the way many students treat their teachers and behave in general in public school I would recommend, that a year or 2 before the kids transition they start doing standardized tests and worksheets to get acclimated to that. It's a big shock otherwise. Overall my kids loved their time in Montessori and wish the program had gone through high school.

deathclassic 4y ago
- GoldenRacer 4y ago
  I'll agree with you that some teachers really suck. I can think of a few examples I had growing up that fit your description. That being said, we have a real shortage of teachers right now and low pay combined with lack of respect is a large reason for that shortage. Maybe the solution isn't calling them stupid and disrespect them. Maybe instead we should make teaching a profession with a liveable wage where they don't have to deal with parents throwing temper tantrums when their kids don't get straight A's. Maybe if we did that, we'd have enough people still wanting to be teachers that we could go ahead and fire the shitty ones (something we can't do if we don't have replacements)
  - deathclassic 4y ago
    We probably just need a different approach to education in general, or just a reckoning of what values our society actually has. As much as I like to hate on teachers (because of bad experiences I had) they really are just the symptoms of an institutional/cultural problem. Reasons teachers get disrespected (and arguably deserve it): - Education is a major studied by idiots who want to party in college. - Western society is individualistic to a fault. The reason teachers get screamed at is because grades are seen as an attack on the character of a parents child (and used to evaluate and individuals worth). Since the parents refuse to believe that their little kid might just not have a high IQ or be lazy, clearly the teacher is at fault. Everyone wants to believe their little mini-me is a special snowflake, the bell curve proves otherwise. - This narcissism and individualism, is also a feature of teachers. Hence, the constant self-aggrandization of being a glorified daycare worker by everyone in the profession. - Teachers unions make it difficult to fire shitty teachers, even if there isn't a shortage of teachers. Just like cops, teachers look out for themselves. - Good teachers get poached by private schools, that offer higher wages. Institutional/Cultural problems that make education shitty: - Property taxes fund schools. Rich suburban areas have well funded schools, poor inner city areas have underfunded schools that are falling apart. Guess which one attracts better teachers? - The US is a large and very diverse country. Some populations here value education A TON, others do not. This is a reality that has to be acknowledge, and the standards of say, Silicon valley should not be applied to rural Texas. (my siblings took AP US history in Texas and they didn't even learn about the civil war) - College is pushed on ALL students, and funding is partially determined by college admittance. Needless to say this is wasteful and partially contributed to many of the issues around student debt and credential inflation. - Standardized testing is also a terrible mechanism for determining school funding. Teachers end up wasting a ton of time trying to teach to some arbitrary standardized test, and the students hate it as well. Idk I could probably list more issues with education but those are a few off the top of my head.
- dustedcodes 4y ago
  How do you really feel about teachers?
conductr 4y ago
Just want to point out this sounds more like a private->public pros and cons list. I’m not doubting it at all, just not sure if it’s due to the Montessori method. Most Montessori’s are or are operate similar to the private setting.
- krn1p4n1c 4y ago
  There's definitely a strong overlap in that sense. Probably also because these institutions tend to have smaller class sizes which allow better teach/student interaction and more time. Public schooling in the US could do this too, but has been hamstrung for decades. In math the kids definitely leveraged the binomial/trinomial tools, beads and other tactile methods to have a better understanding of the concepts of mult/div/exponentials/roots long before they would have approached in the standard US arithmetic methods. They were also doing algebra and geometry by the end of Montessori. Montessori also spends a lot of time working on holistic views with regards to science and history and then give the kids the freedom to do their own research and projects on the topics. The normal school models tend to take more of a cause-effect + memorize the dates method as that's what tracks the testing. It's not generally till university that they then go back to something that usually requires critical thinking. On critical thinking there's an emphasis there in Montessori on involving the kids in asking more questions and then building a model to analyze and defend their position. Public school is optimizing for learn by rote and it's a culture shock going to Uni where they back to something that's utilizing critical analysis. My older child is in IB at the moment and they're using much of this as it's taught in more of Uni style.
  - spooky_action 4y ago
    By IB do you mean international baccalaureate? Do you recommend that over standard curricula?
    - krn1p4n1c 4y ago
      Yes and yes. All of the teachers at the IB here hold a masters or higher in their topics and teach it like it would be at uni. Only one of high schools around here offer anything near it in course depth and focus. I also like that philosophy is compulsory, I feel that the humanities are under served in our current school systems.
sedeki 4y ago
> - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social dynamics of public school Am I naive in thinking that the aggressive social dynamics of public school adds no value whatsoever to a child's or teenager's development? Like, _why_ would anyone want to put their children through that? Is it _really_ integral to a person's social development to understand how to interact with bullies (worst case)? I admit that I am rather nihilistic about public schooling, but I'm open to changing my mind.
- krn1p4n1c 4y ago
  I agree that a lot of it's needless and painful, but there's some merit in knowing how to defend yourself (physically, mentally and emotionally). There's a lot of the petty BS that you learn from in school that transposes to adult life. I hate watching my kids deal with it, but I'd be remiss in raising them if I didn't prepare them for that.
  - sedeki 4y ago
    But why do they need this from public school over say any other social ... activity (?). For example sports. I am genuinely questioning whether public school makes children socially mature rather than only being a traumatic experience for many pupils, for no other reason than that public schooling is the default choice.
    - jterrys 4y ago
      No you're right, there is no other reason than public schooling being the default choice. Which is why its necessary. It's self fulfilling. It's the choice that everyone goes through. So unless you want your children to be unable to adapt to the people that were shaped through that horrible system, you will need to introduce them to that system in some capacity. Sports are not really enough. School is like day job for kids until they're 18. Everyone goes through the same standardized garbage, and they will have to live their lives with other people who went through the same standardized garbage. Your only choice is to pay exorbitantly so they don't go through that garbage, but will face adulthood with 99% of the population that did, which can have mixed results.
boringg 4y ago
Thanks for sharing - those are some very valuable insights. If it's not to personal to ask what sex are your children? I suspect transitioning out may be slightly different depending on a large variety of factors but maybe how children are raised to socialize in a traditional sense. To be fair its been many years since I've been in school but there's probably still a bit of a lean for activity based socializing for boys vs girls but hopefully that's changed.

deathclassic 4y ago

GoldenRacer 4y ago
I'll agree with you that some teachers really suck. I can think of a few examples I had growing up that fit your description. That being said, we have a real shortage of teachers right now and low pay combined with lack of respect is a large reason for that shortage. Maybe the solution isn't calling them stupid and disrespect them. Maybe instead we should make teaching a profession with a liveable wage where they don't have to deal with parents throwing temper tantrums when their kids don't get straight A's. Maybe if we did that, we'd have enough people still wanting to be teachers that we could go ahead and fire the shitty ones (something we can't do if we don't have replacements)
- deathclassic 4y ago
  We probably just need a different approach to education in general, or just a reckoning of what values our society actually has. As much as I like to hate on teachers (because of bad experiences I had) they really are just the symptoms of an institutional/cultural problem. Reasons teachers get disrespected (and arguably deserve it): - Education is a major studied by idiots who want to party in college. - Western society is individualistic to a fault. The reason teachers get screamed at is because grades are seen as an attack on the character of a parents child (and used to evaluate and individuals worth). Since the parents refuse to believe that their little kid might just not have a high IQ or be lazy, clearly the teacher is at fault. Everyone wants to believe their little mini-me is a special snowflake, the bell curve proves otherwise. - This narcissism and individualism, is also a feature of teachers. Hence, the constant self-aggrandization of being a glorified daycare worker by everyone in the profession. - Teachers unions make it difficult to fire shitty teachers, even if there isn't a shortage of teachers. Just like cops, teachers look out for themselves. - Good teachers get poached by private schools, that offer higher wages. Institutional/Cultural problems that make education shitty: - Property taxes fund schools. Rich suburban areas have well funded schools, poor inner city areas have underfunded schools that are falling apart. Guess which one attracts better teachers? - The US is a large and very diverse country. Some populations here value education A TON, others do not. This is a reality that has to be acknowledge, and the standards of say, Silicon valley should not be applied to rural Texas. (my siblings took AP US history in Texas and they didn't even learn about the civil war) - College is pushed on ALL students, and funding is partially determined by college admittance. Needless to say this is wasteful and partially contributed to many of the issues around student debt and credential inflation. - Standardized testing is also a terrible mechanism for determining school funding. Teachers end up wasting a ton of time trying to teach to some arbitrary standardized test, and the students hate it as well. Idk I could probably list more issues with education but those are a few off the top of my head.
dustedcodes 4y ago
How do you really feel about teachers?

conductr 4y ago

Just want to point out this sounds more like a private->public pros and cons list. I’m not doubting it at all, just not sure if it’s due to the Montessori method. Most Montessori’s are or are operate similar to the private setting.

krn1p4n1c 4y ago
There's definitely a strong overlap in that sense. Probably also because these institutions tend to have smaller class sizes which allow better teach/student interaction and more time. Public schooling in the US could do this too, but has been hamstrung for decades. In math the kids definitely leveraged the binomial/trinomial tools, beads and other tactile methods to have a better understanding of the concepts of mult/div/exponentials/roots long before they would have approached in the standard US arithmetic methods. They were also doing algebra and geometry by the end of Montessori. Montessori also spends a lot of time working on holistic views with regards to science and history and then give the kids the freedom to do their own research and projects on the topics. The normal school models tend to take more of a cause-effect + memorize the dates method as that's what tracks the testing. It's not generally till university that they then go back to something that usually requires critical thinking. On critical thinking there's an emphasis there in Montessori on involving the kids in asking more questions and then building a model to analyze and defend their position. Public school is optimizing for learn by rote and it's a culture shock going to Uni where they back to something that's utilizing critical analysis. My older child is in IB at the moment and they're using much of this as it's taught in more of Uni style.
- spooky_action 4y ago
  By IB do you mean international baccalaureate? Do you recommend that over standard curricula?
  - krn1p4n1c 4y ago
    Yes and yes. All of the teachers at the IB here hold a masters or higher in their topics and teach it like it would be at uni. Only one of high schools around here offer anything near it in course depth and focus. I also like that philosophy is compulsory, I feel that the humanities are under served in our current school systems.

sedeki 4y ago

> - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social dynamics of public school Am I naive in thinking that the aggressive social dynamics of public school adds no value whatsoever to a child's or teenager's development? Like, _why_ would anyone want to put their children through that? Is it _really_ integral to a person's social development to understand how to interact with bullies (worst case)? I admit that I am rather nihilistic about public schooling, but I'm open to changing my mind.

krn1p4n1c 4y ago
I agree that a lot of it's needless and painful, but there's some merit in knowing how to defend yourself (physically, mentally and emotionally). There's a lot of the petty BS that you learn from in school that transposes to adult life. I hate watching my kids deal with it, but I'd be remiss in raising them if I didn't prepare them for that.
- sedeki 4y ago
  But why do they need this from public school over say any other social ... activity (?). For example sports. I am genuinely questioning whether public school makes children socially mature rather than only being a traumatic experience for many pupils, for no other reason than that public schooling is the default choice.
  - jterrys 4y ago
    No you're right, there is no other reason than public schooling being the default choice. Which is why its necessary. It's self fulfilling. It's the choice that everyone goes through. So unless you want your children to be unable to adapt to the people that were shaped through that horrible system, you will need to introduce them to that system in some capacity. Sports are not really enough. School is like day job for kids until they're 18. Everyone goes through the same standardized garbage, and they will have to live their lives with other people who went through the same standardized garbage. Your only choice is to pay exorbitantly so they don't go through that garbage, but will face adulthood with 99% of the population that did, which can have mixed results.

boringg 4y ago

Thanks for sharing - those are some very valuable insights. If it's not to personal to ask what sex are your children? I suspect transitioning out may be slightly different depending on a large variety of factors but maybe how children are raised to socialize in a traditional sense. To be fair its been many years since I've been in school but there's probably still a bit of a lean for activity based socializing for boys vs girls but hopefully that's changed.