3 ms·

If you equate "freedom of speech" with permission to spew "hate speech" unchecked then I'm afraid you also have a different definition of free speech than the r

If you equate "freedom of speech" with permission to spew "hate speech" unchecked then I'm afraid you also have a different definition of free speech than the rest of the civilized world.

brigandish 4y ago
This is completely and utterly wrong. There are simply no supporters of free speech who differentiate it from "hate" speech, only the opponents of free speech do that so let's have nothing so mendacious enter the discussion. Freedom of speech is required in order to protect speech that others would prefer not to be expressed - no protection is needed for inoffensive speech, what would be the point! As to "the rest of the civilized world", as pointed out several times now, very little of the "civilized" world has strong speech protections. Germany? Laws against Holocaust denial and defamatory fake news[1], which sounds Orwellian. France isn't pro-free speech either[2]. The UK has the backwards Communication Act and libel laws that are criticised the world over[3], leading to hundreds of convictions a year[4], including for posting your favourite rap lyrics[5]. Canada's free speech protections are anything but[6]. Australia has "less protection of free speech than most Western countries" according to a former High Court judge and there are raids on journalists[7], which we know happens in the US all too regularly[8] as well despite its much lauded first amendment. Italy charges writers for expressing opinions[9]. Perhaps I could complete the G8 with the state of free speech in Russia? Or you'd like to move on to places like Norway that only managed to get rid of its lese majeste laws in 2015? Or Thailand that still has them. Germany only got rid of its lese majeste laws in 2018 after a dictator tried to use them against a satririst, which brings us full circle and we haven't even touched the worst parts of the world. [1] https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-business-3d266e6deb4b419583b9ebae73734213 https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-business-3d266e6de... [2] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/11/france-is-not-the-free-speech-champion-it-says-it-is/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/11/fran... [3] https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/03/21/394273902/on-libel-and-the-law-u-s-and-u-k-go-separate-ways#mainContent https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/03/21/394273902/... [4] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921#main-heading https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921#main... [6] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-what-you-may-think-canadians-dont-actually-have-freedom-of-speech https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-what-you-may-th... [7] https://theconversation.com/australia-doesnt-protect-free-speech-but-it-could-118448 https://theconversation.com/australia-doesnt-protect-free-sp... [8] https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-... [9] https://pen.org/sabotaging-free-speech-in-italy/ https://pen.org/sabotaging-free-speech-in-italy/
least 4y ago
The fun thing about "hate speech" is that it's almost entirely arbitrary and can be redefined to suit the whims of the people in any given year. Free speech is the enemy to authoritarianism, not its ally. What is acceptable speech should not be able to change just because there's a change in government or a different party is elected. I'll gladly accept that my definition of free speech differs from the "civilized world" that has no clue what free speech is and has basically no interest in protecting it.

If you equate "freedom of speech" with permission to spew "hate speech" unchecked then I'm afraid you also have a different definition of free speech than the rest of the civilized world.

brigandish 4y ago

This is completely and utterly wrong. There are simply no supporters of free speech who differentiate it from "hate" speech, only the opponents of free speech do that so let's have nothing so mendacious enter the discussion. Freedom of speech is required in order to protect speech that others would prefer not to be expressed - no protection is needed for inoffensive speech, what would be the point! As to "the rest of the civilized world", as pointed out several times now, very little of the "civilized" world has strong speech protections. Germany? Laws against Holocaust denial and defamatory fake news[1], which sounds Orwellian. France isn't pro-free speech either[2]. The UK has the backwards Communication Act and libel laws that are criticised the world over[3], leading to hundreds of convictions a year[4], including for posting your favourite rap lyrics[5]. Canada's free speech protections are anything but[6]. Australia has "less protection of free speech than most Western countries" according to a former High Court judge and there are raids on journalists[7], which we know happens in the US all too regularly[8] as well despite its much lauded first amendment. Italy charges writers for expressing opinions[9]. Perhaps I could complete the G8 with the state of free speech in Russia? Or you'd like to move on to places like Norway that only managed to get rid of its lese majeste laws in 2015? Or Thailand that still has them. Germany only got rid of its lese majeste laws in 2018 after a dictator tried to use them against a satririst, which brings us full circle and we haven't even touched the worst parts of the world. [1] https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-business-3d266e6deb4b419583b9ebae73734213 https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-business-3d266e6de... [2] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/11/france-is-not-the-free-speech-champion-it-says-it-is/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2020/11/fran... [3] https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/03/21/394273902/on-libel-and-the-law-u-s-and-u-k-go-separate-ways#mainContent https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/03/21/394273902/... [4] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-... [5] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921#main-heading https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921#main... [6] https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-what-you-may-think-canadians-dont-actually-have-freedom-of-speech https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/despite-what-you-may-th... [7] https://theconversation.com/australia-doesnt-protect-free-speech-but-it-could-118448 https://theconversation.com/australia-doesnt-protect-free-sp... [8] https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-us/ https://freedom.press/news/2020-report-journalists-arrested-... [9] https://pen.org/sabotaging-free-speech-in-italy/ https://pen.org/sabotaging-free-speech-in-italy/

least 4y ago

The fun thing about "hate speech" is that it's almost entirely arbitrary and can be redefined to suit the whims of the people in any given year. Free speech is the enemy to authoritarianism, not its ally. What is acceptable speech should not be able to change just because there's a change in government or a different party is elected. I'll gladly accept that my definition of free speech differs from the "civilized world" that has no clue what free speech is and has basically no interest in protecting it.