3 ms·

To power vehicles, you would need fuel stations all around the country with hydrogen-fuel equipment. To power the grid from excess solar, you need a hydrogen-b

To power vehicles, you would need fuel stations all around the country with hydrogen-fuel equipment. To power the grid from excess solar, you need a hydrogen-burning generator at the site of the electrolysis plant.

bamboozled 4y ago
To power vehicles, you would need fuel stations all around the country with hydrogen-fuel equipment. Why does this keep coming up? Who cares about this specific point? If there is demand, people will build the fuel stations, like we did with gas and oil? I get there are other harder problems with Hydrogen, but worrying about infrastructure seems strange?
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  To summarize, IF you get the practical engineering resolved, IF you get all the consumer products designed and ready for manufacturing, and IF you get a de minimis infrastructure to scale from, that's ... 15 years? Hydrogen infrastructure, if what we're talking about is on the scale of current ICE cars, can't "organically" compete, and won't "organically" develop. It has no chance without a massive government investment/buy-in on a decade long scale. It needs huge investment for each of the big IFs I outlined above. Look at the cost curves of solar / wind / batteries for the last 10 years, and consider that there are numerous technologies about to be rolled out that will improve those at the same or better rate and the overall industrial scaleout / economies of scale isn't close to being done. Hydrogen is marketed these days with "hey it will cost X and that is (theoretically / lies damn lies and accounting) competitive with wind/solar/batteries (which exist and we KNOW what they cost) price today. But there is absolutely no chance of hydrogen being cost competitive in general power transmission/carrier, transportation, etc in 10-15 years. Heck in 5 years it likely won't. So the hydrogen people are praying that their lobbying + fortune would produce some boondoggle subsidy to build this out, and then the government would limp it along due to the sunk cost fallacy.

bamboozled 4y ago

To power vehicles, you would need fuel stations all around the country with hydrogen-fuel equipment. Why does this keep coming up? Who cares about this specific point? If there is demand, people will build the fuel stations, like we did with gas and oil? I get there are other harder problems with Hydrogen, but worrying about infrastructure seems strange?

AtlasBarfed 4y ago
To summarize, IF you get the practical engineering resolved, IF you get all the consumer products designed and ready for manufacturing, and IF you get a de minimis infrastructure to scale from, that's ... 15 years? Hydrogen infrastructure, if what we're talking about is on the scale of current ICE cars, can't "organically" compete, and won't "organically" develop. It has no chance without a massive government investment/buy-in on a decade long scale. It needs huge investment for each of the big IFs I outlined above. Look at the cost curves of solar / wind / batteries for the last 10 years, and consider that there are numerous technologies about to be rolled out that will improve those at the same or better rate and the overall industrial scaleout / economies of scale isn't close to being done. Hydrogen is marketed these days with "hey it will cost X and that is (theoretically / lies damn lies and accounting) competitive with wind/solar/batteries (which exist and we KNOW what they cost) price today. But there is absolutely no chance of hydrogen being cost competitive in general power transmission/carrier, transportation, etc in 10-15 years. Heck in 5 years it likely won't. So the hydrogen people are praying that their lobbying + fortune would produce some boondoggle subsidy to build this out, and then the government would limp it along due to the sunk cost fallacy.