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We need technologies to store electricity generated by renewables. If anyone has a better idea than hydrogen to do this in a scalable way, congratulations, you

by jansan 4y ago

We need technologies to store electricity generated by renewables. If anyone has a better idea than hydrogen to do this in a scalable way, congratulations, you made the world a better place.

pjc50 4y ago
Given how annoying H+ ions are to handle, rather than sticking them together as H2 it may be easier to leave them in the electrolyte from whence they came, in the form of a "battery". Unless there's some magic breakthrough in catalytic chemistry for water electrolysis, the capital cost of all the platinum required is going to be a problem.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I mean the simplest one is gravity; the most scalable version of that is pumping water up into a reservoir behind a hydroelectric power plant. There's others that propose heavy trains going uphill or weights down a hole, but that doesn't scale very well and has additional maintenance costs. But yeah, that would be electrical into mechanical energy (pumps), the cost would be flowing water up against gravity. Of course, it also requires a source of water downhill and a reservoir uphill. I was going to quip about Lake Mead being empty, but that would be huge distances to cover. Maybe something close to sea, or else a purpose built closed loop system.
- jansan 4y ago
  And you think that isn't done already? If every country was like Norway, this would be the way to go. But good look doing this in the Netherlands.
  - reacharavindh 4y ago
    There are plenty of "battery" technologies that are not perfect, but substantially better than Hydrogen(in terms of round trip efficiency) though. Several startups with sound ideas. If only Governments picked them up in war like emergency and threw their capital at it to progress. 1. https://energydome.com https://energydome.com 2. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520 3. https://newatlas.com/energy/china-100mw-compressed-air/ https://newatlas.com/energy/china-100mw-compressed-air/ 4. https://www.hydrostor.ca https://www.hydrostor.ca
- bluGill 4y ago
  Pumped hydro is great where it works, but we have used most of the best places for it. We also know it is an environmental disaster for the local area which needs to be balanced against the gain. Even if you ignore that, it takes a lot of space.
panick21_ 4y ago
Rust battery pretty interesting. https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/ https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/ If you are gone make hydrogen, just right there turn it into methanol and use and transport that around. Or just make airplane fuel right on sight. But the problem with all those theories is that investing in electricity consuming plants that will only have a very low utilization is generally not a great plan. Maybe not trying to build your whole grid out of renewables would be the better plan.

by jansan 4y ago

We need technologies to store electricity generated by renewables. If anyone has a better idea than hydrogen to do this in a scalable way, congratulations, you made the world a better place.

pjc50 4y ago

Given how annoying H+ ions are to handle, rather than sticking them together as H2 it may be easier to leave them in the electrolyte from whence they came, in the form of a "battery". Unless there's some magic breakthrough in catalytic chemistry for water electrolysis, the capital cost of all the platinum required is going to be a problem.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

I mean the simplest one is gravity; the most scalable version of that is pumping water up into a reservoir behind a hydroelectric power plant. There's others that propose heavy trains going uphill or weights down a hole, but that doesn't scale very well and has additional maintenance costs. But yeah, that would be electrical into mechanical energy (pumps), the cost would be flowing water up against gravity. Of course, it also requires a source of water downhill and a reservoir uphill. I was going to quip about Lake Mead being empty, but that would be huge distances to cover. Maybe something close to sea, or else a purpose built closed loop system.

jansan 4y ago
And you think that isn't done already? If every country was like Norway, this would be the way to go. But good look doing this in the Netherlands.
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  There are plenty of "battery" technologies that are not perfect, but substantially better than Hydrogen(in terms of round trip efficiency) though. Several startups with sound ideas. If only Governments picked them up in war like emergency and threw their capital at it to progress. 1. https://energydome.com https://energydome.com 2. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520 3. https://newatlas.com/energy/china-100mw-compressed-air/ https://newatlas.com/energy/china-100mw-compressed-air/ 4. https://www.hydrostor.ca https://www.hydrostor.ca
bluGill 4y ago
Pumped hydro is great where it works, but we have used most of the best places for it. We also know it is an environmental disaster for the local area which needs to be balanced against the gain. Even if you ignore that, it takes a lot of space.

panick21_ 4y ago

Rust battery pretty interesting. https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/ https://formenergy.com/technology/battery-technology/ If you are gone make hydrogen, just right there turn it into methanol and use and transport that around. Or just make airplane fuel right on sight. But the problem with all those theories is that investing in electricity consuming plants that will only have a very low utilization is generally not a great plan. Maybe not trying to build your whole grid out of renewables would be the better plan.