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Only 8500 coal power plants in the world producing 20% of emissions. No miracles needed to replace them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-fired_power_stati

Only 8500 coal power plants in the world producing 20% of emissions. No miracles needed to replace them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-fired_power_station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-fired_power_station Replacing a billion gasoline cars is going to take decades

mavhc 4y ago
We should start by not making new gasoline cars, or new coal power stations
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- melling 4y ago
  Electric cars aren’t ready. And absolutely everyone knows that, so why are we bringing it up? We could’ve replaced coal plants two decades ago, however, and reduced emissions by 20% globally
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Electric cars aren’t ready The scaling problems facing battery electrics are dwarfed by those facing hydrogen. They’re also being aggressively solved in America, the EU and China.
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      >They’re also being aggressively solved in America, the EU and China. Challenge. Where and how are these problems being addressed, other than hoping that people voluntary reduce demand when asked?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        Not sure what we are talking about. There are an absolute shit ton of battery factories being build. A huge ramp up in science and research. There is also a huge ramp up in cathode and anode production facilities. All major lithium companies have announced major build out of existing facilities and building new once as well. A major expansion of both natural and synthetic graphite is being done. Cobalt is not expanding as quickly but its getting systematically kicked out from the batteries anyway. In addition to that, LFP batteries reduced the projected demand for nickel from batteries. In addition to that CATL is introducing Sodium batteries as well. So maybe you were not paying attention but there is a gigantic explosion in every part of the battery supply chain happening right now. With major private and public investment. There will still be some shortages of important materials, specially lithium however its certainty being worked on. Of course there are also improvements in safety, reliability and so on. A huge amount of research and development.
        pxmpxm 4y ago
        The gating factor for the scaling issue isn't the battery production (mining externalities notwithstanding), but the infrastructure to support them. Wave your magic wand to will everyone a Tesla, and watch the grid collapse the same instant.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        Yeah but nobody is waving a magic won, as production of EV will go up, ways in the network would be found to handle this. Many studies have been done and this and every study I have seen agrees that its not as big of a problem as many make it out to be. In fact, I assume infrastructure for charging for EV owners without a home is the much larger infrastructure challenge.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        The grid has plenty of spare room in the evening "bath tub" (daytime peak is very different from nighttime peak). If you wave that magic wand and everyone has a Tesla today and everyone charges at wall outlet at off-peak times, the grid wouldn't hardly notice.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    Electric cars are ready for gasoline car use cases, leaving 5-10% or so where EV is not ready. (the places where electric cars ready are not are places where diesel is better than gasoline, though some people do use gasoline anyway). Currently EVs are in the phase of scaling production, but that will take a bit of time. > We could’ve replaced coal plants two decades ago, however, and reduced emissions by 20% globally What we would have replaced coal with 20 years ago (and in fact what we did starting more than 20 years ago) is mostly natural gas, which itself pollutes, just less. (depending on what pollution you measure you will get different numbers for how much less) Wind and solar is coming along fast, and is also replacing coal plants (for nearly zero pollution) but we are already scaling those as fast as possible so to claim we could have done more 20 years ago is false.
  - goodcanadian 4y ago
    Electric cars aren’t ready. And absolutely everyone knows that, so why are we bringing it up? I have been driving an electric car for 4 years, and it serves my needs beautifully. So, no, I strongly disagree. Electric cars are ready for most use cases and many people agree.
    - melling 4y ago
      how much did you pay for that electric car? They aren’t comparable in price. It’s weird how we have to have these silly discussions where people must know that they’re obviously wrong before commenting. Replacing 1.3 billion cars is going to take decades.
      - bluGill 4y ago
        The average car lasts about 12 years. Sure some collectors cars will be kept running for decades, but it will take about less than 2 decades to replace essentially all cars if we only made EVs. Only selling EVs is the law set to take effect in a few years. I'm sure that the law will be rolled back a little when one of the 5-10% usecases where EVs don't work screams loud enough (probably shipping and remote areas), but it will become hard to find fuel for your gas car in a couple decades.
        melling 4y ago
        Yes, in the year 2035 the internal combustion engine no longer be sold. Unless we have to push back a few years. That gets us to around 2050. 27 years from now.
        Karrot_Kream 4y ago
        To get to 100% EV usage, yes. In the US, we're already at 5.5% sales of all cars are BEVs, up from a year ago at 3.1%, up from 1% two years ago. In just 5 years a sizable portion of American cars will be BEV, which will create demand for charging and grid usage, which will accelerate the shift. In markets with lots of Tesla adoption, there's already a robust used Tesla market.
  - mavhc 4y ago
    Oh no, don't tell my electric car that's 10 years old

mavhc 4y ago

We should start by not making new gasoline cars, or new coal power stations

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
melling 4y ago
Electric cars aren’t ready. And absolutely everyone knows that, so why are we bringing it up? We could’ve replaced coal plants two decades ago, however, and reduced emissions by 20% globally
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Electric cars aren’t ready The scaling problems facing battery electrics are dwarfed by those facing hydrogen. They’re also being aggressively solved in America, the EU and China.
  - pxmpxm 4y ago
    >They’re also being aggressively solved in America, the EU and China. Challenge. Where and how are these problems being addressed, other than hoping that people voluntary reduce demand when asked?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Not sure what we are talking about. There are an absolute shit ton of battery factories being build. A huge ramp up in science and research. There is also a huge ramp up in cathode and anode production facilities. All major lithium companies have announced major build out of existing facilities and building new once as well. A major expansion of both natural and synthetic graphite is being done. Cobalt is not expanding as quickly but its getting systematically kicked out from the batteries anyway. In addition to that, LFP batteries reduced the projected demand for nickel from batteries. In addition to that CATL is introducing Sodium batteries as well. So maybe you were not paying attention but there is a gigantic explosion in every part of the battery supply chain happening right now. With major private and public investment. There will still be some shortages of important materials, specially lithium however its certainty being worked on. Of course there are also improvements in safety, reliability and so on. A huge amount of research and development.
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        The gating factor for the scaling issue isn't the battery production (mining externalities notwithstanding), but the infrastructure to support them. Wave your magic wand to will everyone a Tesla, and watch the grid collapse the same instant.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        Yeah but nobody is waving a magic won, as production of EV will go up, ways in the network would be found to handle this. Many studies have been done and this and every study I have seen agrees that its not as big of a problem as many make it out to be. In fact, I assume infrastructure for charging for EV owners without a home is the much larger infrastructure challenge.
        WorldMaker 4y ago
        The grid has plenty of spare room in the evening "bath tub" (daytime peak is very different from nighttime peak). If you wave that magic wand and everyone has a Tesla today and everyone charges at wall outlet at off-peak times, the grid wouldn't hardly notice.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Electric cars are ready for gasoline car use cases, leaving 5-10% or so where EV is not ready. (the places where electric cars ready are not are places where diesel is better than gasoline, though some people do use gasoline anyway). Currently EVs are in the phase of scaling production, but that will take a bit of time. > We could’ve replaced coal plants two decades ago, however, and reduced emissions by 20% globally What we would have replaced coal with 20 years ago (and in fact what we did starting more than 20 years ago) is mostly natural gas, which itself pollutes, just less. (depending on what pollution you measure you will get different numbers for how much less) Wind and solar is coming along fast, and is also replacing coal plants (for nearly zero pollution) but we are already scaling those as fast as possible so to claim we could have done more 20 years ago is false.
- goodcanadian 4y ago
  Electric cars aren’t ready. And absolutely everyone knows that, so why are we bringing it up? I have been driving an electric car for 4 years, and it serves my needs beautifully. So, no, I strongly disagree. Electric cars are ready for most use cases and many people agree.
  - melling 4y ago
    how much did you pay for that electric car? They aren’t comparable in price. It’s weird how we have to have these silly discussions where people must know that they’re obviously wrong before commenting. Replacing 1.3 billion cars is going to take decades.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      The average car lasts about 12 years. Sure some collectors cars will be kept running for decades, but it will take about less than 2 decades to replace essentially all cars if we only made EVs. Only selling EVs is the law set to take effect in a few years. I'm sure that the law will be rolled back a little when one of the 5-10% usecases where EVs don't work screams loud enough (probably shipping and remote areas), but it will become hard to find fuel for your gas car in a couple decades.
      - melling 4y ago
        Yes, in the year 2035 the internal combustion engine no longer be sold. Unless we have to push back a few years. That gets us to around 2050. 27 years from now.
        Karrot_Kream 4y ago
        To get to 100% EV usage, yes. In the US, we're already at 5.5% sales of all cars are BEVs, up from a year ago at 3.1%, up from 1% two years ago. In just 5 years a sizable portion of American cars will be BEV, which will create demand for charging and grid usage, which will accelerate the shift. In markets with lots of Tesla adoption, there's already a robust used Tesla market.
- mavhc 4y ago
  Oh no, don't tell my electric car that's 10 years old