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https://www.afr.com/technology/gig-economy-laws-coming-in-first-half-of-2023-20220904-p5bf9k https://www.afr.com/technology/gig-economy-laws-coming-in-fi... Ne

https://www.afr.com/technology/gig-economy-laws-coming-in-first-half-of-2023-20220904-p5bf9k https://www.afr.com/technology/gig-economy-laws-coming-in-fi... New laws coming in 2023 that probably made the 'gig' part more like 'casual worker' which means they pay extra per hour worked, minimum 3 hours paid per 'shift/callout'. > “A delivery rider on a bike who is at the mercy of an algorithm on their phone is not the same as a genuinely empowered contractor who runs their own small business,”

ghufran_syed 4y ago
I wonder if the people who just lost their jobs feel relieved that their exploitation has ended…?
- eecc 4y ago
- dbetteridge 4y ago
  irrelevant, if the business is unsustainable following the laws and practices of Australia then it should not exist. We have a social safety net and a hot job market, there will be other better employers available.
  - gonzo41 4y ago
    I actually just don't think there's a market for this to exist as a decentralized company that treats both sides as a customer. I think it could work in Australia if business had more of a share of the delivery pie, then I think it could be profitable. Kind of if KFC and Mcdonalds and a few others pooled costs on a integrated delivery solution. I would bet that deliveroo mined the restaurants for too much money, and when demand dropped they then that spiraled out to effect customer costs. And now they don't exist!
    - dbetteridge 4y ago
      Yeah I would have to agree, by their nature most of these outfits rely on VC funding + underpaid workers or tipping. Some kind of Co-op arrangement where delivery drivers band together and offer a platform that companies can subscribe too could also work (assuming a simple enough backend system).
      - gonzo41 4y ago
        I would structure it so it's a separate company that offer's delivery. So workers are employed under one entity, and restaurants integrate. But this is a very local style solution. The Tech company part of this could probably be providing the enabling platform. But the VC money would never support essentially a coop style model because it would never return big enough.
  - kiawe_fire 4y ago
    Doesn’t a hot job market and social safety net equally provide workers freedom to choose an alternative to the supposedly exploitative gig without regulation? Generally, if a job market is hot, it means employers are incentivized to not be jerks and try to lure workers to them with perks, thereby giving plenty of alternatives to those who feel exploited. And given a social safety net, wouldn’t one not feel “stuck” in said job as a necessity to live? If someone still chooses something “exploitative”, then perhaps there is a benefit to that job that makes it worth while in a way that regulators (and others privileged enough not work said job) don’t see themselves.
    - altacc 4y ago
      Perhaps in theory but in reality companies align on the lowest common denominator. so whilst directly not conspiring they begin to provide the same pay mechanisms, benefits & security (or lack of). Many of these companies also entice workers with unrealistic projections, or have changed their pay structure due to a funding squeeze. Most social safety nets don't pay you unemployment if you quit a job, so unless the job market is really good (and it's not as we're all heading for recessions or downturns) it is not easy to change jobs.
- ehnto 4y ago
  If you capitulate to every crying wolf whenever regulations came about, you would end up with exploited workers.
- jsmeaton 4y ago
  Or other businesses will be able to compete in the labour market with real wages once the exploiters are no longer able to profit off desperation. We have minimum wage laws for a reason and skirting around them and claiming that the “contractors” should be thankful for their meagre share is nonsense.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  No worries mate: Deliveroo was a distant fourth in the market, so their riders can continue to be exploited by any of Uber Eats, Menulog and Doordash.
- altacc 4y ago
  Perhaps child workers also feel cheated when the sweatshop they work at is closed down when pressure forces a client to stop using that factory but that isn't a valid reason to keep using child labour. Most companies will settle on the lowest level of worker compensation, benefits, security & support that they can get away with. Worker choice is an illusion when most jobs reach these low levels and it is up to governments to raise the level. While the loss of these bad jobs is a short term pain to those affected, the long term effects of working bad jobs is much worse. People aren't working there because they love the low pay, inconsistent hours and lack of security, they're working there because better options aren't available. It is the responsibility of governments to ensure companies provide jobs that pay a livable wage and reasonable benefits.
TheHappyOddish 4y ago
Archive link: https://archive.ph/11jOo https://archive.ph/11jOo

ghufran_syed 4y ago

I wonder if the people who just lost their jobs feel relieved that their exploitation has ended…?

eecc 4y ago
dbetteridge 4y ago
irrelevant, if the business is unsustainable following the laws and practices of Australia then it should not exist. We have a social safety net and a hot job market, there will be other better employers available.
- gonzo41 4y ago
  I actually just don't think there's a market for this to exist as a decentralized company that treats both sides as a customer. I think it could work in Australia if business had more of a share of the delivery pie, then I think it could be profitable. Kind of if KFC and Mcdonalds and a few others pooled costs on a integrated delivery solution. I would bet that deliveroo mined the restaurants for too much money, and when demand dropped they then that spiraled out to effect customer costs. And now they don't exist!
  - dbetteridge 4y ago
    Yeah I would have to agree, by their nature most of these outfits rely on VC funding + underpaid workers or tipping. Some kind of Co-op arrangement where delivery drivers band together and offer a platform that companies can subscribe too could also work (assuming a simple enough backend system).
    - gonzo41 4y ago
      I would structure it so it's a separate company that offer's delivery. So workers are employed under one entity, and restaurants integrate. But this is a very local style solution. The Tech company part of this could probably be providing the enabling platform. But the VC money would never support essentially a coop style model because it would never return big enough.
- kiawe_fire 4y ago
  Doesn’t a hot job market and social safety net equally provide workers freedom to choose an alternative to the supposedly exploitative gig without regulation? Generally, if a job market is hot, it means employers are incentivized to not be jerks and try to lure workers to them with perks, thereby giving plenty of alternatives to those who feel exploited. And given a social safety net, wouldn’t one not feel “stuck” in said job as a necessity to live? If someone still chooses something “exploitative”, then perhaps there is a benefit to that job that makes it worth while in a way that regulators (and others privileged enough not work said job) don’t see themselves.
  - altacc 4y ago
    Perhaps in theory but in reality companies align on the lowest common denominator. so whilst directly not conspiring they begin to provide the same pay mechanisms, benefits & security (or lack of). Many of these companies also entice workers with unrealistic projections, or have changed their pay structure due to a funding squeeze. Most social safety nets don't pay you unemployment if you quit a job, so unless the job market is really good (and it's not as we're all heading for recessions or downturns) it is not easy to change jobs.
ehnto 4y ago
If you capitulate to every crying wolf whenever regulations came about, you would end up with exploited workers.
jsmeaton 4y ago
Or other businesses will be able to compete in the labour market with real wages once the exploiters are no longer able to profit off desperation. We have minimum wage laws for a reason and skirting around them and claiming that the “contractors” should be thankful for their meagre share is nonsense.
rippercushions 4y ago
No worries mate: Deliveroo was a distant fourth in the market, so their riders can continue to be exploited by any of Uber Eats, Menulog and Doordash.
altacc 4y ago
Perhaps child workers also feel cheated when the sweatshop they work at is closed down when pressure forces a client to stop using that factory but that isn't a valid reason to keep using child labour. Most companies will settle on the lowest level of worker compensation, benefits, security & support that they can get away with. Worker choice is an illusion when most jobs reach these low levels and it is up to governments to raise the level. While the loss of these bad jobs is a short term pain to those affected, the long term effects of working bad jobs is much worse. People aren't working there because they love the low pay, inconsistent hours and lack of security, they're working there because better options aren't available. It is the responsibility of governments to ensure companies provide jobs that pay a livable wage and reasonable benefits.

TheHappyOddish 4y ago

Archive link: https://archive.ph/11jOo https://archive.ph/11jOo