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Go watch the Urbanity video again. It wasn't 1 single intersection, it was a collection of intersections around Ottawa, with video evidence and everything. How

Go watch the Urbanity video again. It wasn't 1 single intersection, it was a collection of intersections around Ottawa, with video evidence and everything. How is that "not a source"? Here's an other article that was like 5th google result of "how many people stop at stop signs". https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how-many-people-make-a-complete-stop/ https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how... Also, I'm calling you out as disingenuous. Everyone who has been through North America knows that practically everybody all the time rolls through stop signs. Do I need to provide a source that water is wet and the sky is blue?

throw10920 4y ago
> it was a collection of intersections around Ottawa, with video evidence and everything. How is that "not a source"? The Urbanity video tested three intersections, over twenty minutes of a single day, with no methodology given for the picking of the intersections, no controlling for the day of the week or the time of day. It should be very clear to anyone who has an inkling about how scientific evidence works that this isn't a source of reliable information. And, even if those results were representative of Ottawa, it's pretty obvious that Ottawa is not representative of the US. > Here's an other article that was like 5th google result of "how many people stop at stop signs". https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how... Did you read that article? It's only a few paragraphs long and it includes lines like "At the end of the five-minute experiment, six out of 21 cars had actually stopped before crossing the intersection." and "It was unscientific to say the least." - and even by that extremely unscientific test they found that over a quarter of the cars stopped. You claimed "approximately 100% of motorists", which is wildly different from that 71% in that, again, not scientific at all "test" that was performed. > Everyone who has been through North America knows that practically everybody all the time rolls through stop signs. I live in the US (the location under discussion - not Ottawa) and I've heard people say that maybe twice across three different states. So, no, this isn't true. > Do I need to provide a source that water is wet and the sky is blue? That's not relevant, because you are unable to come up with sources to defend this particular claim that you've made above.
- joshlemer 4y ago
  Yesterday I went out to the nearest stop sign to my place and quickly recorded this https://youtu.be/98kWkZBa-fU https://youtu.be/98kWkZBa-fU, again not to the level of a research journal or engineering study but I think it’s pretty undeniable that almost nobody ever stops at stop signs
- joshlemer 4y ago
  If you are actually open minded and curious and charitable about this discussion, you could go ahead and do the basic amount of googling yourself to satisfy your curiosity. No I didn't read the article fully because I don't care to. It's so plainly obvious that most drivers don't come to a complete stop that I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove it to you any more than I would try and prove to you with studies that the sky is blue. I don't need a study to tell me what I see in front of my face all day every day in every city I've ever lived in (Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, Tennessee) or visited, in Canada and in the United States. It's also pretty US-centric of you to say that the US is the location under discussion and that Canadaian cities are not. The link of this thread is literally just the Idaho Stop wiki page, we're talking about stop signs in general. What would even make you think that this is only a discussion about the US, because Idaho Stop is named after a US State, or because user SamBam mentioned that most stops could be yields in the US? He also mentioned the UK in his comment, and my comment explicitly gave Canadian examples. Is this just like an American attitude that all discussions must by default be only about them unless stated otherwise? Your nit picking of the Urbanity informal study is weak. Unless you think the authors intentionally went out of their way to cherry pick a particularly bad 20 minute period, on a particularly lawless day, at 3 particularly lawless intersections, I think it's fair to assume that their observations are pretty typical and representative of Ottawa. That is really the occam's razor explanation and it's good enough to form an opinion unless you want to come and provide even more reliable evidence otherwise. But if you actually are interested here's US study that observed a full stop rate of only about 20% https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000287 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00224...

throw10920 4y ago

> it was a collection of intersections around Ottawa, with video evidence and everything. How is that "not a source"? The Urbanity video tested three intersections, over twenty minutes of a single day, with no methodology given for the picking of the intersections, no controlling for the day of the week or the time of day. It should be very clear to anyone who has an inkling about how scientific evidence works that this isn't a source of reliable information. And, even if those results were representative of Ottawa, it's pretty obvious that Ottawa is not representative of the US. > Here's an other article that was like 5th google result of "how many people stop at stop signs". https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how https://wtop.com/news/2013/08/wtops-stop-sign-experiment-how... Did you read that article? It's only a few paragraphs long and it includes lines like "At the end of the five-minute experiment, six out of 21 cars had actually stopped before crossing the intersection." and "It was unscientific to say the least." - and even by that extremely unscientific test they found that over a quarter of the cars stopped. You claimed "approximately 100% of motorists", which is wildly different from that 71% in that, again, not scientific at all "test" that was performed. > Everyone who has been through North America knows that practically everybody all the time rolls through stop signs. I live in the US (the location under discussion - not Ottawa) and I've heard people say that maybe twice across three different states. So, no, this isn't true. > Do I need to provide a source that water is wet and the sky is blue? That's not relevant, because you are unable to come up with sources to defend this particular claim that you've made above.

joshlemer 4y ago
Yesterday I went out to the nearest stop sign to my place and quickly recorded this https://youtu.be/98kWkZBa-fU https://youtu.be/98kWkZBa-fU, again not to the level of a research journal or engineering study but I think it’s pretty undeniable that almost nobody ever stops at stop signs
joshlemer 4y ago
If you are actually open minded and curious and charitable about this discussion, you could go ahead and do the basic amount of googling yourself to satisfy your curiosity. No I didn't read the article fully because I don't care to. It's so plainly obvious that most drivers don't come to a complete stop that I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove it to you any more than I would try and prove to you with studies that the sky is blue. I don't need a study to tell me what I see in front of my face all day every day in every city I've ever lived in (Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, Tennessee) or visited, in Canada and in the United States. It's also pretty US-centric of you to say that the US is the location under discussion and that Canadaian cities are not. The link of this thread is literally just the Idaho Stop wiki page, we're talking about stop signs in general. What would even make you think that this is only a discussion about the US, because Idaho Stop is named after a US State, or because user SamBam mentioned that most stops could be yields in the US? He also mentioned the UK in his comment, and my comment explicitly gave Canadian examples. Is this just like an American attitude that all discussions must by default be only about them unless stated otherwise? Your nit picking of the Urbanity informal study is weak. Unless you think the authors intentionally went out of their way to cherry pick a particularly bad 20 minute period, on a particularly lawless day, at 3 particularly lawless intersections, I think it's fair to assume that their observations are pretty typical and representative of Ottawa. That is really the occam's razor explanation and it's good enough to form an opinion unless you want to come and provide even more reliable evidence otherwise. But if you actually are interested here's US study that observed a full stop rate of only about 20% https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022437522000287 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00224...