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One thing notable about the way Blizzard has been operating lately is that they remove the existing thing when updating the old thing. I've heard you automatica

by jchw 4y ago

One thing notable about the way Blizzard has been operating lately is that they remove the existing thing when updating the old thing. I've heard you automatically get "upgraded" to Warcraft III reforged if you have it installed and are logged into Battle.net. I hear Overwatch 1 is similarly wiped out and no longer playable. The thing that's weird is, I don't think this is normal at all. On Nintendo's end, you can still play Splatoon 2 just fine even though Splatoon 3 came out, even on multiplayer. Multiplayer games often have a long life after they're superceded, even if it's a smaller contingent. If you boot up Quake 3 Arena or Unreal Tournament 2004, you can see there are still players online pretty much always, even if it's a small contingent. The only good reason I can think of for utterly axing old games is so that you don't have to compete with them. Why buy Reforged for $40 when you could get the original better Warcraft III on GoG? (You can't, of course; you can only get Warcraft I and II on GoG, at least now.) In case of Overwatch, they WOULD have to continue to run the servers. But surely, the majority of players would switch to the new game anyway, right? My opinion should be taken as a grain of salt because Warcraft III is one of the last games I really liked that much from Blizzard, to be honest. But still, something stinks over at Activision Blizzard, and it's somehow not just Bobby Kotick.

tylerhou 4y ago
I think there is a reasonable explanation for removing OW1. Queue times were already a huge problem (which is a large reason why they moved to one tank, as nobody wanted to play tank). Keeping around OW1 would have fragmented the player base and would have hurt the OW2 launch. That said, there are plenty of more cynical reasons why Blizzard removed OW1 which are likely also true…
- gigaflop 4y ago
  I have no sources on hand and no desire to find any, but I think that OW2 was a partial refactor of OW1, if that makes sense. They'd always planned to sunset OW1 for the release of 2. Ages ago, there was a large update to OW1, which I believe had something to do with 'readiness' for OW2 in the form of major engine changes, etc. Nothing was really new after that patch, but it was massive, and may have actually been a full reinstall. Memory is flaky there, and I don't want to look for details while at work. I'd bet $1 that the megapatch (and patches since) would have been designed with OW2 in mind, since OW2 took a long time in the oven. Extrapolating a bit, I think of it as running the OW2 engine in OW1 compatibility mode, or something.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  Sure, that's their motives of course - to move people to a newer game and not have any distractions like lingering old stuff. If you only played for free then it may sting but you have no right to compensation, only to annoyed venting. But people are saying they paid $60 for it. They have a right to compensation. Moreover, it feels like this should not only be handled by individual damages related to the value of the product but also a fine or punitive damages related to what they thought they would gain from the scheme.
- lghh 4y ago
  But I paid for OW1, right? They don't come and repossess my car when a new model comes out.
  - govg 4y ago
    To be super pedantic, you bought a license for the software. That is just the truth us consumers have to deal with, and you can support DRM-free purchases like via GOG to help turn the tide. Also existing owners of OW1 were given additional stuff for OW2. Of course, I (as an owner myself) don't think it was a good compensation and hate Blizzard for removing the old game. But there is enough justification that your original price has been repaid in content.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    You purchased a licence to play OW1 that definitely included a clause that they can stop providing the service at any time for any reason. Unsure if these have been rigorously tested in court though.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Queue times were already a huge problem This one is self-inflicted. The whole role queue system sucks.
hotpotamus 4y ago
I mean, that's the SaaS model, and I suppose it does make sense for multiplayer games which require ongoing maintenance, but I agree, it's not what I'm looking for for my gaming.
- jchw 4y ago
  It certainly isn't unprecedented, which is probably the worst part of the whole thing. That said, I think that it is at least a partial component of the OW2 backlash, so it's hard to ignore here :(
SpaceManNabs 4y ago
WCIII TFT is quite easily blizzard's greatest game simply because of the world editor. I have played a bit of WoW, SCII, and Overwatch, and nothing will come close to finding a new custom game Sunday morning at 2 am and having fun with a random lobby. The "melee" (standard mode) matches were great too. I have played a lot of games and genres and nothing will ever top that experience for me.
- govg 4y ago
  I know this sounds trite, but you should give OW2 another go with a group of regular friends. You can setup custom games with super goofy rules or use some of the excellent existing custom game codes, and not even touch the competitive aspect of the game.
  - philippejara 4y ago
    Almost every single game with a group of regular friends will eventually become fun, and if he wishes to do the things you just mentioned he could do it in most source engine games with a lot more freedom.
    - SpaceManNabs 4y ago
      Agreed. I mini boycotted Blizzard since 2012 because of starcraft stuff, and I fully cutoff blizzard from my spending in 2018. I didn't even try reforged, and I played both custom and standard games in WCIII religiously. I was good at both dota and 1v1 (semi pro in the latter).
AlexandrB 4y ago
This was a such a bizarre move for Warcraft III - a game that was 18 years old when Reforged came out. I kind of get OW2 more: it's basically a F2P patch, like what happened with TF2 or Evolve. If they had just said OW is going F2P it's what I would have expected - the weirdest part is calling it a sequel at all. But Warcraft III feels like it's from a completely different era, so it's kind of shocking that they replaced it with Reforged. It's like if Valve patched CounterStrike 1.6 so that it's just CS: GO with shittier graphics.

by jchw 4y ago

tylerhou 4y ago

I think there is a reasonable explanation for removing OW1. Queue times were already a huge problem (which is a large reason why they moved to one tank, as nobody wanted to play tank). Keeping around OW1 would have fragmented the player base and would have hurt the OW2 launch. That said, there are plenty of more cynical reasons why Blizzard removed OW1 which are likely also true…

gigaflop 4y ago
I have no sources on hand and no desire to find any, but I think that OW2 was a partial refactor of OW1, if that makes sense. They'd always planned to sunset OW1 for the release of 2. Ages ago, there was a large update to OW1, which I believe had something to do with 'readiness' for OW2 in the form of major engine changes, etc. Nothing was really new after that patch, but it was massive, and may have actually been a full reinstall. Memory is flaky there, and I don't want to look for details while at work. I'd bet $1 that the megapatch (and patches since) would have been designed with OW2 in mind, since OW2 took a long time in the oven. Extrapolating a bit, I think of it as running the OW2 engine in OW1 compatibility mode, or something.
LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
Sure, that's their motives of course - to move people to a newer game and not have any distractions like lingering old stuff. If you only played for free then it may sting but you have no right to compensation, only to annoyed venting. But people are saying they paid $60 for it. They have a right to compensation. Moreover, it feels like this should not only be handled by individual damages related to the value of the product but also a fine or punitive damages related to what they thought they would gain from the scheme.
lghh 4y ago
But I paid for OW1, right? They don't come and repossess my car when a new model comes out.
- govg 4y ago
  To be super pedantic, you bought a license for the software. That is just the truth us consumers have to deal with, and you can support DRM-free purchases like via GOG to help turn the tide. Also existing owners of OW1 were given additional stuff for OW2. Of course, I (as an owner myself) don't think it was a good compensation and hate Blizzard for removing the old game. But there is enough justification that your original price has been repaid in content.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  You purchased a licence to play OW1 that definitely included a clause that they can stop providing the service at any time for any reason. Unsure if these have been rigorously tested in court though.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> Queue times were already a huge problem This one is self-inflicted. The whole role queue system sucks.

hotpotamus 4y ago

I mean, that's the SaaS model, and I suppose it does make sense for multiplayer games which require ongoing maintenance, but I agree, it's not what I'm looking for for my gaming.

jchw 4y ago
It certainly isn't unprecedented, which is probably the worst part of the whole thing. That said, I think that it is at least a partial component of the OW2 backlash, so it's hard to ignore here :(

SpaceManNabs 4y ago

WCIII TFT is quite easily blizzard's greatest game simply because of the world editor. I have played a bit of WoW, SCII, and Overwatch, and nothing will come close to finding a new custom game Sunday morning at 2 am and having fun with a random lobby. The "melee" (standard mode) matches were great too. I have played a lot of games and genres and nothing will ever top that experience for me.

govg 4y ago
I know this sounds trite, but you should give OW2 another go with a group of regular friends. You can setup custom games with super goofy rules or use some of the excellent existing custom game codes, and not even touch the competitive aspect of the game.
- philippejara 4y ago
  Almost every single game with a group of regular friends will eventually become fun, and if he wishes to do the things you just mentioned he could do it in most source engine games with a lot more freedom.
  - SpaceManNabs 4y ago
    Agreed. I mini boycotted Blizzard since 2012 because of starcraft stuff, and I fully cutoff blizzard from my spending in 2018. I didn't even try reforged, and I played both custom and standard games in WCIII religiously. I was good at both dota and 1v1 (semi pro in the latter).

AlexandrB 4y ago

This was a such a bizarre move for Warcraft III - a game that was 18 years old when Reforged came out. I kind of get OW2 more: it's basically a F2P patch, like what happened with TF2 or Evolve. If they had just said OW is going F2P it's what I would have expected - the weirdest part is calling it a sequel at all. But Warcraft III feels like it's from a completely different era, so it's kind of shocking that they replaced it with Reforged. It's like if Valve patched CounterStrike 1.6 so that it's just CS: GO with shittier graphics.