4 ms·

Feels like the demand to be a Game Developer means they'll end up with one of those setups where the union is big on putting up a barrier to entry

AlexandrB 4y ago
Is that better or worse than an industry that burns through and discards young talent as standard operating procedure? I would argue that the product would only improve if it's harder to enter, but someone can have a 30 year career instead of a 5 year crunchfest. Who knows though.
- none_to_remain 4y ago
  I don't know! Don't intend to go into the field either way so luckily I don't have to figure it out
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
Could you explain what you mean by this? How does demand to be a game developer require the union to put up barriers to entry? And also, how does this compare with the demand to be in hollywood vs the actor's union?
- none_to_remain 4y ago
  Protection of incumbent union members from masses of competitors. Acting, stage acting, not Hollywood, is actually where I'm most familiar with this through friends. If you want to be an actor, move to NYC, and try to find a role, you get sent to the back of the line at every audition and probably they don't even get to you. There was another way in (this may be outdated now) where you got points towards joining by working for certain employers. That's why some of my friends played characters for an abusive boss at a now defunct space travel theme restaurant - just for points to join the union
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    > space travel theme restaurant Planet Hollywood?
    - michaelleslie 4y ago
      Sounds like Mars 2112 in Times Square.
- jedberg 4y ago
  The actor's union is a huge barrier to entry. Any movie that includes a union actor is not allowed to have non-union actors if the budget is over some small amount (like $2MM or something). The only way to get into the union is to be nominated by someone who is already in. The only way to get seen by those people is to work in adjacent jobs to acting, or get lucky and get on a small film with both union and non-union actors. Once you're in the union it's great. It's a great example of how to form a union for creative people that mandates minimum pay and working conditions but no maximum, allowing for stars to get huge checks while making sure everyone gets good conditions and living wages.
  - olddustytrail 4y ago
    > The only way to get into the union is to be nominated by someone who is already in. About 10 seconds of googling would have told you that is wrong.
- Raidion 4y ago
  It's supply and demand. Kids don't grow up wanting to be CRUD app developers, they grow up wanting to be game developers. This means that working conditions are notoriously bad (bad pay, terrible hours). To raise pay they need to constrict supply, to constrict supply they need to put up barriers to entry. Actors union is a definite barrier to entry: you need to either be a notable independent actor/performer (rare), get a job on a SAG AFTRA because you have a talent that they can't find in union (rare), or show that you've worked in the field (non-union commercials/films) enough to be notable. Then you need to apply, pay $3k, pay ~$200 a year dues, and give up ~1.5% of all your contracts to the union. Then you can't take a non-union job (again restricting the talent pool). I honestly don't see a ton of difference between the two: both establish choke points and collective bargaining in high demand fields to improve working conditions for the people that are in the union.
kevingadd 4y ago
There's already a big barrier to entry: low wages and even entry-level roles demanding lots of experience When I started in the industry I couldn't afford a bed on my salary for about a year, and I only got my "in" by having a lot of experience doing indie development during high school and college - many people don't have the free time and resources to build up that portfolio.

AlexandrB 4y ago

Is that better or worse than an industry that burns through and discards young talent as standard operating procedure? I would argue that the product would only improve if it's harder to enter, but someone can have a 30 year career instead of a 5 year crunchfest. Who knows though.

none_to_remain 4y ago
I don't know! Don't intend to go into the field either way so luckily I don't have to figure it out

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

Could you explain what you mean by this? How does demand to be a game developer require the union to put up barriers to entry? And also, how does this compare with the demand to be in hollywood vs the actor's union?

none_to_remain 4y ago
Protection of incumbent union members from masses of competitors. Acting, stage acting, not Hollywood, is actually where I'm most familiar with this through friends. If you want to be an actor, move to NYC, and try to find a role, you get sent to the back of the line at every audition and probably they don't even get to you. There was another way in (this may be outdated now) where you got points towards joining by working for certain employers. That's why some of my friends played characters for an abusive boss at a now defunct space travel theme restaurant - just for points to join the union
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  > space travel theme restaurant Planet Hollywood?
  - michaelleslie 4y ago
    Sounds like Mars 2112 in Times Square.
jedberg 4y ago
The actor's union is a huge barrier to entry. Any movie that includes a union actor is not allowed to have non-union actors if the budget is over some small amount (like $2MM or something). The only way to get into the union is to be nominated by someone who is already in. The only way to get seen by those people is to work in adjacent jobs to acting, or get lucky and get on a small film with both union and non-union actors. Once you're in the union it's great. It's a great example of how to form a union for creative people that mandates minimum pay and working conditions but no maximum, allowing for stars to get huge checks while making sure everyone gets good conditions and living wages.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  > The only way to get into the union is to be nominated by someone who is already in. About 10 seconds of googling would have told you that is wrong.
Raidion 4y ago
It's supply and demand. Kids don't grow up wanting to be CRUD app developers, they grow up wanting to be game developers. This means that working conditions are notoriously bad (bad pay, terrible hours). To raise pay they need to constrict supply, to constrict supply they need to put up barriers to entry. Actors union is a definite barrier to entry: you need to either be a notable independent actor/performer (rare), get a job on a SAG AFTRA because you have a talent that they can't find in union (rare), or show that you've worked in the field (non-union commercials/films) enough to be notable. Then you need to apply, pay $3k, pay ~$200 a year dues, and give up ~1.5% of all your contracts to the union. Then you can't take a non-union job (again restricting the talent pool). I honestly don't see a ton of difference between the two: both establish choke points and collective bargaining in high demand fields to improve working conditions for the people that are in the union.

kevingadd 4y ago

There's already a big barrier to entry: low wages and even entry-level roles demanding lots of experience When I started in the industry I couldn't afford a bed on my salary for about a year, and I only got my "in" by having a lot of experience doing indie development during high school and college - many people don't have the free time and resources to build up that portfolio.