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"I'm glad that pacifists don't play a role in politics where it matters, or we'd long ago given up all hope of freedom." This is a "we had to destroy the villa

"I'm glad that pacifists don't play a role in politics where it matters, or we'd long ago given up all hope of freedom." This is a "we had to destroy the village to save it" type of situation. There's no freedom if everyone is dead.

luckylion 4y ago
Giving up freedom to buy security does not work. Whatever temporary security you gain will be taken away from you tomorrow, because you've shown them that you will not resist. Appeasement does not work, especially when you're dealing with a fascist state. You can sell out Poland today, but you will still not stop Russia from "accidentally" attacking the Baltic States tomorrow.
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "Whatever temporary security you gain will be taken away from you tomorrow, because you've shown them that you will not resist." Whatever you imagine that's going to look like, it's going to be better than the world ending.
  - totony 4y ago
    That's a very subjective (and I assume unpopular) opinion. Western nations especially do not share you views, with popular addages being "better die on your feet than live on your knees," "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," etc. Not that I think appeasement would work, but I think a chance of freedom is more important than a life of servitude for a lot of the west (most?)
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      You're talking about the end of the world. Pretty much everybody dying. All of the cultural products of our civilization: music, art, history, philosophy, architecture, math, writing... lost... perhaps for all time. For the survivors (if there are any): unimaginable horror and suffering compared to which virtually anything would be better. Most likely most of the survivors will just kill themselves. It's horror on a scale that's just unimaginable to virtually anyone who hasn't been through a major war.. and it'll be infinitely worse than that. It's just sheer insanity that we're getting so close to that and some people are just egging us on to total destruction.
      - tekknik 4y ago
        One person is egging us on to total destruction, Putin. Who has talked about nukes but him? Everything you listed here except math will also be destroyed and replaced if Russia is successful. You will never know what’s true again. So if Putin wanted the entire world except China and NK, you’d give it to him to stop from destroying everything?

luckylion 4y ago

Giving up freedom to buy security does not work. Whatever temporary security you gain will be taken away from you tomorrow, because you've shown them that you will not resist. Appeasement does not work, especially when you're dealing with a fascist state. You can sell out Poland today, but you will still not stop Russia from "accidentally" attacking the Baltic States tomorrow.

pmoriarty 4y ago
"Whatever temporary security you gain will be taken away from you tomorrow, because you've shown them that you will not resist." Whatever you imagine that's going to look like, it's going to be better than the world ending.
- totony 4y ago
  That's a very subjective (and I assume unpopular) opinion. Western nations especially do not share you views, with popular addages being "better die on your feet than live on your knees," "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," etc. Not that I think appeasement would work, but I think a chance of freedom is more important than a life of servitude for a lot of the west (most?)
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    You're talking about the end of the world. Pretty much everybody dying. All of the cultural products of our civilization: music, art, history, philosophy, architecture, math, writing... lost... perhaps for all time. For the survivors (if there are any): unimaginable horror and suffering compared to which virtually anything would be better. Most likely most of the survivors will just kill themselves. It's horror on a scale that's just unimaginable to virtually anyone who hasn't been through a major war.. and it'll be infinitely worse than that. It's just sheer insanity that we're getting so close to that and some people are just egging us on to total destruction.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      One person is egging us on to total destruction, Putin. Who has talked about nukes but him? Everything you listed here except math will also be destroyed and replaced if Russia is successful. You will never know what’s true again. So if Putin wanted the entire world except China and NK, you’d give it to him to stop from destroying everything?