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IMO dictatorship is the inevitable result of Marxism. I once had a girlfriend who was a Marxist. She used to talk about how when the revolution comes, the mean

IMO dictatorship is the inevitable result of Marxism. I once had a girlfriend who was a Marxist. She used to talk about how when the revolution comes, the mean capitalists would all go to prison. I pointed out that mean people don't disappear. They adapt to the system. So a meanie who is adept at scaling the corporate ladder to the commanding heights is equally adepts at scaling the government ladder. Only now he controls the entire economy, education system, courts etc, not just one entity.

Florin_Andrei 15y ago
Marx advocated some pretty violent means to achieve the change he desired - so, by the principle of "sow wind, reap hurricane", you must be right. The history of Eastern Europe in the 20th century definitely does agree with you. Just be careful to not unwarrantedly extend the shadow of violence and dictatorship over the socialist ideas too. I know it sounds like trying to tell apples from oranges, but surprisingly many are ignorant, consciously or not, of the difference, especially in the US. A free market system with socialist overtones can work wonderfully well. Just look at Northern Europe.
- anamax 15y ago
  > A free market system with socialist overtones can work wonderfully well. Just look at Northern Europe. Anything will work with Northern Europeans (or Mormons, in reference to another thread) so that doesn't prove anything. The key test is whether {something} works with cultures where other things fail.
  - Florin_Andrei 15y ago
    Or maybe it's the other way 'round. Perhaps they chose a sensible system because they are rational, compassionate and civilized people. Come to think of it, that seems more likely now.
    - anamax 15y ago
      Huh? How they chose their system has nothing to do with whether that system would work for someone else. It also has nothing to do with how well another system would work for them.
    - itmag 15y ago
      This is not really true. Only 100-70 years ago Sweden was a very classist society with quite severe internal conflicts (workers were gunned down by the military in an incident in the 30s for instance). In the 17th century Sweden was an imperialist country dedicated to the bloody wars of several ambitious kings (Gustav II, Karl XII, etc). Supposedly some people in Germany still warn their kids of the Swedes... So my point is that Scandinavia was not always a peace-loving hippie region dedicated to sensible socialism-light. That stuff is quite recent.
      - anamax 15y ago
        And during that time, were Swedes productive and so on? If so, that's evidence for the "Swedes can make any system work" theory.
        itmag 15y ago
        Yeah, they were productive. At mayhem and conquest :)
      - Florin_Andrei 15y ago
        > That stuff is quite recent. Any sensible, rational "stuff" is recent, anywhere in the world. Until very recently, no country or culture were good places to be.

Florin_Andrei 15y ago

Marx advocated some pretty violent means to achieve the change he desired - so, by the principle of "sow wind, reap hurricane", you must be right. The history of Eastern Europe in the 20th century definitely does agree with you. Just be careful to not unwarrantedly extend the shadow of violence and dictatorship over the socialist ideas too. I know it sounds like trying to tell apples from oranges, but surprisingly many are ignorant, consciously or not, of the difference, especially in the US. A free market system with socialist overtones can work wonderfully well. Just look at Northern Europe.

anamax 15y ago
> A free market system with socialist overtones can work wonderfully well. Just look at Northern Europe. Anything will work with Northern Europeans (or Mormons, in reference to another thread) so that doesn't prove anything. The key test is whether {something} works with cultures where other things fail.
- Florin_Andrei 15y ago
  Or maybe it's the other way 'round. Perhaps they chose a sensible system because they are rational, compassionate and civilized people. Come to think of it, that seems more likely now.
  - anamax 15y ago
    Huh? How they chose their system has nothing to do with whether that system would work for someone else. It also has nothing to do with how well another system would work for them.
  - itmag 15y ago
    This is not really true. Only 100-70 years ago Sweden was a very classist society with quite severe internal conflicts (workers were gunned down by the military in an incident in the 30s for instance). In the 17th century Sweden was an imperialist country dedicated to the bloody wars of several ambitious kings (Gustav II, Karl XII, etc). Supposedly some people in Germany still warn their kids of the Swedes... So my point is that Scandinavia was not always a peace-loving hippie region dedicated to sensible socialism-light. That stuff is quite recent.
    - anamax 15y ago
      And during that time, were Swedes productive and so on? If so, that's evidence for the "Swedes can make any system work" theory.
      - itmag 15y ago
        Yeah, they were productive. At mayhem and conquest :)
    - Florin_Andrei 15y ago
      > That stuff is quite recent. Any sensible, rational "stuff" is recent, anywhere in the world. Until very recently, no country or culture were good places to be.