4 ms·

They’ll find a reason, its how the EU works.

Quarrelsome 4y ago
So your position is that Germany will find a reason to sanction Poland because Poland have been accidentally bombed by the Russian Federation? Sorry, I'm struggling to follow. Are you sure? Perhaps you are still championing the dated notion that Germany is over exposed to the Russian energy market and thus is in thrall to the Russian Federation? I thought since the Nord Stream exploderised that was no longer really the case.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  I was beyond sarcastic, cant help it, i am sorry and i know it has no place here but the current state of affairs in the eu makes it too easy. On a serious note, you may want to read about german, and other western, companies’ russia “exits”: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/11/03/are-western-brands-as-serious-about-withdrawing-from-russia-as-they-appear-a79265 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/11/03/are-western-brands... Cant find the link but apparently german carmakers expect to be back in about 5 years time (there is a clause in their exit contracts that they will be allowed to take back their assets after that amount of time).
  - orf 4y ago
    > An unusual clause in their exit deals allows both Renault and Nissan to buy back their Russian assets within the next six years > These facts suggest that the apparent exit of both companies from Russia is reluctant and largely symbolic, with both optimistic that sanctions will be lifted at some point in the next few years, allowing them to seamlessly re-enter the Russian market Of course they will re-enter the Russian market. That was never in doubt, and it’s a very smart move to sign an exit deal allowing them to swiftly re-enter the market when it’s ready with all their places of operations nicely maintained for them. It seems that the people who signed that deal on the Russian side where negotiating from a position of weakness? The issue is if they will re-enter a market with Putin at its head and Ukraine subjugated. That seems increasingly unlikely.
  - Quarrelsome 4y ago
    sorry but I fail to see what that article has to do with the discussion at play. I really would suggest losing the cryptic veneer and making your points a little more plainly because you've merely left me confused. At one point we're talking about a missile landing in Poland then suddenly Germany is chastising Poland for some inexplicable reason and now two multi-national car manufacturers have buy-back clauses to lessen the potential impact of their losses from having to dump operations in Russia. I'm really not seeing a biting narrative that connects these dots.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  The official stance of Polish state TV and the leading politician is that Germany is Poland's biggest enemy. It's partly empty rhetoric aimed at the older population (the main electorate of the currently ruling right-wing party) and partly the perception that bigger EU countries try to bully everyone else (even France got upset over the recent public help issue). The core of the issue in this particular case is that the ruling party tried to completely take over Polish courts in ways that were illegal both according to Polish and European law. The EU justly said they won't send the Next Generation EU money until Poland fixes this. The Polish Prime minister would agree to this, but the minister of justice said "over my dead body" - and without him the ruling party will not be able to have a majority rule. So the Polish ruling party accuses the EU, and the EU accuses them. Interesting to see how it plays out. In the meantime Poland is losing millions of euros because of one guy's big ego.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

So your position is that Germany will find a reason to sanction Poland because Poland have been accidentally bombed by the Russian Federation? Sorry, I'm struggling to follow. Are you sure? Perhaps you are still championing the dated notion that Germany is over exposed to the Russian energy market and thus is in thrall to the Russian Federation? I thought since the Nord Stream exploderised that was no longer really the case.

yrgulation 4y ago
I was beyond sarcastic, cant help it, i am sorry and i know it has no place here but the current state of affairs in the eu makes it too easy. On a serious note, you may want to read about german, and other western, companies’ russia “exits”: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/11/03/are-western-brands-as-serious-about-withdrawing-from-russia-as-they-appear-a79265 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/11/03/are-western-brands... Cant find the link but apparently german carmakers expect to be back in about 5 years time (there is a clause in their exit contracts that they will be allowed to take back their assets after that amount of time).
- orf 4y ago
  > An unusual clause in their exit deals allows both Renault and Nissan to buy back their Russian assets within the next six years > These facts suggest that the apparent exit of both companies from Russia is reluctant and largely symbolic, with both optimistic that sanctions will be lifted at some point in the next few years, allowing them to seamlessly re-enter the Russian market Of course they will re-enter the Russian market. That was never in doubt, and it’s a very smart move to sign an exit deal allowing them to swiftly re-enter the market when it’s ready with all their places of operations nicely maintained for them. It seems that the people who signed that deal on the Russian side where negotiating from a position of weakness? The issue is if they will re-enter a market with Putin at its head and Ukraine subjugated. That seems increasingly unlikely.
- Quarrelsome 4y ago
  sorry but I fail to see what that article has to do with the discussion at play. I really would suggest losing the cryptic veneer and making your points a little more plainly because you've merely left me confused. At one point we're talking about a missile landing in Poland then suddenly Germany is chastising Poland for some inexplicable reason and now two multi-national car manufacturers have buy-back clauses to lessen the potential impact of their losses from having to dump operations in Russia. I'm really not seeing a biting narrative that connects these dots.
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
The official stance of Polish state TV and the leading politician is that Germany is Poland's biggest enemy. It's partly empty rhetoric aimed at the older population (the main electorate of the currently ruling right-wing party) and partly the perception that bigger EU countries try to bully everyone else (even France got upset over the recent public help issue). The core of the issue in this particular case is that the ruling party tried to completely take over Polish courts in ways that were illegal both according to Polish and European law. The EU justly said they won't send the Next Generation EU money until Poland fixes this. The Polish Prime minister would agree to this, but the minister of justice said "over my dead body" - and without him the ruling party will not be able to have a majority rule. So the Polish ruling party accuses the EU, and the EU accuses them. Interesting to see how it plays out. In the meantime Poland is losing millions of euros because of one guy's big ego.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]