9 ms·

I would 100% prefer to lose my keys rather than letting Amazon or Google in. FYI: I have zero Alexa/Siri enabled device, zero automated home device, a degoogle

I would 100% prefer to lose my keys rather than letting Amazon or Google in. FYI: I have zero Alexa/Siri enabled device, zero automated home device, a degoogled phone, etc etc. So we might have different perspectives on the matter.

gmadsen 4y ago
i mean you could always run a home server for the automated home things. heating/ac and lights are nice things to automate
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Because spending tens of thousands of dollars in home infrastructure to avoid fiddling with the thermostat four times a year definitely makes sense.
  - progman32 4y ago
    My heat is controlled and automated with open source software for the grand total of about fifty bucks and a free surplus server.
    - xcambar 4y ago
      I don’t know how that can be true. Can you tell us more?
      - seba_dos1 4y ago
        I'm considering making an OpenTherm controller for my heating boiler, I just researched this topic a few days ago - it's absolutely true, there are ready-made Arduino libraries for that.
      - horsawlarway 4y ago
        It's incredibly easy to do (caveat - at least if you're familiar with software dev already). Most thermostats are literally just digital thermometers that control a relay that turns the furnace/ac on and off. A simple arduino (or much cheaper IC) can easily do the same thing if you wire it in. And then on the software side... there's several large, open-source projects that exist in this space and provide nice api tooling for interacting with those devices. Things like: OpenHab: https://www.openhab.org/ https://www.openhab.org/ HomeAssistant: https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/ HomeBridge: https://homebridge.io/ https://homebridge.io/ etc... Even Alexa has basically drop-in self hosted alternatives like Mycroft: https://mycroft.ai/ https://mycroft.ai/ or ADA/Almomd (now Genie) https://genie.stanford.edu/ https://genie.stanford.edu/ It's not only true - I strongly suspect you can do it for much less than 50 bucks if you don't need the physical thermostat to have buttons/screens.
        xcambar 4y ago
        Makes sense. My setup doesn't allow for that. Hence my ignorance. Good for you!
    - forgetfreeman 4y ago
      So DIY solutions exist that raise the cost to an education in computer programming and $50 in hardware...to avoid touching a thermostat four times a year. That's neat.
  - omvtam 4y ago
    I inherited a 1980's model AC/Furnace and controlling the AC at least is extremely simple and cheap. A 12V relay in the compressor housing activating the 220V switch, connected to another relay controlled by a Pi zero which is controlled by yet another PI zero with a $10 DHT 22. A bash script check the temp and activates the compressor via SSh when the temp goes above 74F. The furnace control hasn't died yet so I haven't bothered replacing it. Putting the cooling system on IoT total cost = ~ $100
    - karaterobot 4y ago
      What if you charged someone to build and install the same system in their house? You'd probably charge a lot more than $100, and that's what the real cost would be for most people.
      - bee_rider 4y ago
        Nobody has suggested professional installation though, the original suggestion was just a nice home automatic project to play with.
- xcambar 4y ago
  controlled heating for my flat with open source and Zigbee compatible devices would cost me ~1k. I did not calculate the ROI but break even looks like it’d take many years.
daveidol 4y ago
Curious: are you concerned about data leaks or you don't trust the employees to not access your user data? Or something else?
- jacksnipe 4y ago
  Not who you asked but: I’m afraid of the data being stored and available to anybody. As long as it’s out there, the government can compel others to give it to them; and companies can get acquired and structures and laws can change in such a way that the data gets in others hands perfectly legally. Thus, I should only be okay with it if I’m okay with the “nothing to hide” argument, which I’m not.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Yes, yes, and I don't like anything home automation to be dependant on anything cloud. Enhancing function is fine but house that stops working right the moment internet link is down is a dystopia.
  - leobabauta 4y ago
    "Dystopia" seems like a stronger word than applies here.
- xcambar 4y ago
  Both and more. Having my data sold to 3rd parties is an obvious first. And if you think the terms of service are enough to cover you, see how fast they can change in everyday life and please reconsider. Plus, data can be sold pseudo-anonymously and build up a profile against which your identity is compared and metered, as in, for example, health insurance risks or crime potential. Additionally, we, the consumers, have lost the right to own things. Or at least, if we do own things, it comes with all sorts of strings attached in the form of "features" or "connectivity". Which is just marketing lingo to say that you're feeding the cash cow.
cameronh90 4y ago
Each to their own. Personally the value these cloud/AI assistants give me is worth the loss of privacy. There's nothing I do that I think anyone would be especially interested in spying on, other than to try and sell me things. Note that I don't think anyone should be forced into this sort of surveilance. It should always be a choice. I also support the open source projects to bring it back to individual control - it's just too much hassle for me, personally.
- gaucheries 4y ago
  > the value these cloud/AI assistants give me is worth the loss of privacy they've got you right where they want you.
  - csallen 4y ago
    He seems to have them right where we he wants them, too. Mutual transaction. Everybody's happy.
    - xcambar 4y ago
      The benefits of the consumer measures in comfort or social status, mostly. The benefits of the producer measures in dollars. However you balance it, the producer wins. By many orders of magnitude. And since were talking about privacy and personal data, the more consumers there are, the more the producers improve their margin on each and all consumers.
      - csallen 4y ago
        Why is it a competition? If you give me a slice of cake, and I give you $5, and we're both happy with that, why should I care if you're somehow "winning" or I'm "losing"? That mindset seems like a self-fulling prophecy that robs me of my satisfaction. Also, I would argue that receiving money does not mean the producer wins, since ultimately the producer is also a consumer, and who will thus be spending those dollars on the same things as every other consumer… comfort and status, as you put it.

gmadsen 4y ago

i mean you could always run a home server for the automated home things. heating/ac and lights are nice things to automate

forgetfreeman 4y ago
Because spending tens of thousands of dollars in home infrastructure to avoid fiddling with the thermostat four times a year definitely makes sense.
- progman32 4y ago
  My heat is controlled and automated with open source software for the grand total of about fifty bucks and a free surplus server.
  - xcambar 4y ago
    I don’t know how that can be true. Can you tell us more?
    - seba_dos1 4y ago
      I'm considering making an OpenTherm controller for my heating boiler, I just researched this topic a few days ago - it's absolutely true, there are ready-made Arduino libraries for that.
    - horsawlarway 4y ago
      It's incredibly easy to do (caveat - at least if you're familiar with software dev already). Most thermostats are literally just digital thermometers that control a relay that turns the furnace/ac on and off. A simple arduino (or much cheaper IC) can easily do the same thing if you wire it in. And then on the software side... there's several large, open-source projects that exist in this space and provide nice api tooling for interacting with those devices. Things like: OpenHab: https://www.openhab.org/ https://www.openhab.org/ HomeAssistant: https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/ HomeBridge: https://homebridge.io/ https://homebridge.io/ etc... Even Alexa has basically drop-in self hosted alternatives like Mycroft: https://mycroft.ai/ https://mycroft.ai/ or ADA/Almomd (now Genie) https://genie.stanford.edu/ https://genie.stanford.edu/ It's not only true - I strongly suspect you can do it for much less than 50 bucks if you don't need the physical thermostat to have buttons/screens.
      - xcambar 4y ago
        Makes sense. My setup doesn't allow for that. Hence my ignorance. Good for you!
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    So DIY solutions exist that raise the cost to an education in computer programming and $50 in hardware...to avoid touching a thermostat four times a year. That's neat.
- omvtam 4y ago
  I inherited a 1980's model AC/Furnace and controlling the AC at least is extremely simple and cheap. A 12V relay in the compressor housing activating the 220V switch, connected to another relay controlled by a Pi zero which is controlled by yet another PI zero with a $10 DHT 22. A bash script check the temp and activates the compressor via SSh when the temp goes above 74F. The furnace control hasn't died yet so I haven't bothered replacing it. Putting the cooling system on IoT total cost = ~ $100
  - karaterobot 4y ago
    What if you charged someone to build and install the same system in their house? You'd probably charge a lot more than $100, and that's what the real cost would be for most people.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      Nobody has suggested professional installation though, the original suggestion was just a nice home automatic project to play with.
xcambar 4y ago
controlled heating for my flat with open source and Zigbee compatible devices would cost me ~1k. I did not calculate the ROI but break even looks like it’d take many years.

daveidol 4y ago

Curious: are you concerned about data leaks or you don't trust the employees to not access your user data? Or something else?

jacksnipe 4y ago
Not who you asked but: I’m afraid of the data being stored and available to anybody. As long as it’s out there, the government can compel others to give it to them; and companies can get acquired and structures and laws can change in such a way that the data gets in others hands perfectly legally. Thus, I should only be okay with it if I’m okay with the “nothing to hide” argument, which I’m not.
ilyt 4y ago
Yes, yes, and I don't like anything home automation to be dependant on anything cloud. Enhancing function is fine but house that stops working right the moment internet link is down is a dystopia.
- leobabauta 4y ago
  "Dystopia" seems like a stronger word than applies here.
xcambar 4y ago
Both and more. Having my data sold to 3rd parties is an obvious first. And if you think the terms of service are enough to cover you, see how fast they can change in everyday life and please reconsider. Plus, data can be sold pseudo-anonymously and build up a profile against which your identity is compared and metered, as in, for example, health insurance risks or crime potential. Additionally, we, the consumers, have lost the right to own things. Or at least, if we do own things, it comes with all sorts of strings attached in the form of "features" or "connectivity". Which is just marketing lingo to say that you're feeding the cash cow.

cameronh90 4y ago

Each to their own. Personally the value these cloud/AI assistants give me is worth the loss of privacy. There's nothing I do that I think anyone would be especially interested in spying on, other than to try and sell me things. Note that I don't think anyone should be forced into this sort of surveilance. It should always be a choice. I also support the open source projects to bring it back to individual control - it's just too much hassle for me, personally.

gaucheries 4y ago
> the value these cloud/AI assistants give me is worth the loss of privacy they've got you right where they want you.
- csallen 4y ago
  He seems to have them right where we he wants them, too. Mutual transaction. Everybody's happy.
  - xcambar 4y ago
    The benefits of the consumer measures in comfort or social status, mostly. The benefits of the producer measures in dollars. However you balance it, the producer wins. By many orders of magnitude. And since were talking about privacy and personal data, the more consumers there are, the more the producers improve their margin on each and all consumers.
    - csallen 4y ago
      Why is it a competition? If you give me a slice of cake, and I give you $5, and we're both happy with that, why should I care if you're somehow "winning" or I'm "losing"? That mindset seems like a self-fulling prophecy that robs me of my satisfaction. Also, I would argue that receiving money does not mean the producer wins, since ultimately the producer is also a consumer, and who will thus be spending those dollars on the same things as every other consumer… comfort and status, as you put it.