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Most people I know that want electric cars are stuck with underpowered electrical service and panels and too much redtape and delay involved with upgrading thei

by jms703 4y ago

Most people I know that want electric cars are stuck with underpowered electrical service and panels and too much redtape and delay involved with upgrading their service. My current utility (PG&E) just told me it is 1.5 to 2 years to get my service upgraded.

chroma 4y ago
You shouldn't need help from the utility to add a charger in your garage. An electrician can do it. It's the same as adding an outlet for a dryer or oven.
- dan353hehe 4y ago
  I believe the OP is saying that the service to their house is underpowered. Meaning the wire conductors that run from their house aren’t rated for a lot of current. For example my house is only rated for 120 Amps total, and to upgrade that I would have to contact the electrical company and have them install new wires to my house.
- cannaceo 4y ago
  You need help from a utility if you have an old home without adequate service from the electric company. Common example is your home is on 100amp service and that is entirely consumed by TVs, kitchen appliances, HVAC, etc.
- abfan1127 4y ago
  this isn't necessarily true. Ford's Lightning has an 80A charger that many homes can't support. They do offer a slower charger, but it impacts charge times. https://chargers.ford.com https://chargers.ford.com
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Even with the Lightning, very few people would need an 80A for their daily usage. Though the dryer plug mentioned above would be a little on the low side. Even that would be good for between 100 and 150 miles per day.
  - guhidalg 4y ago
    Do you really *need* an 80A charger if you're charging daily and overnight? 240V * 80A = 19.2 kW. The F-150 has a 98kWh battery. At 80A it charges in about 5 hours, though you likely wouldn't see 80A due to needing a current spike safety margin. If you halve the current, the car could charge in ~10 hours, and that's assuming you actually use the entire battery every day. I'm not saying it's ideal to have to charge every day, but IMO it's not a deal breaker. If you are fully charging every day, you can probably save a bit of gas money by getting an EV-favorable plan from your utility that encourages energy consumption at night. Anyway, I own a Tesla and I love never going to a gas station.
    - mmh0000 4y ago
      I have a Tesla S85 and Tesla's 80A charger (on a 100A circuit because of the safety margin you mention). I don't normally have to charge my car quickly, but there has been a few times have 80A available has come in super handy. To install the 80A charger, I had to upgrade the service panel on my house from a total of 100A service to 250A service. I also had to have a dedicated 100A circuit line run from the panel to the garage. Thankfully, I was able to do that using the same service line to the house that I already had. However, the power company wouldn't let me go higher than 250 without significant cost and time. Anyway, all that is to say, I LOVE my 80A charger, and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    A Lightning is a bit of an extreme example as trucks are going to get pretty bad efficiency compared to something smaller. But we'll still use it to look at what charging is like with a smaller charger. The F150 Lightning is roughly rated for ~50kWh/100mi by the EPA, or ~2mi/kWh. A 60 mile daily round trip commute would then be ~30kWh. At home, I have a 32A J1772 charger. That's ~7.68kW its rated for, we'll call it 7.2kW after charging inefficiencies. 30 kW/h / 7.2kW = 4.166h. A 60 mile commute would easily be recharged in less than four and a half hours. Let's say you can't even handle a 32A charger overnight. A 20A charger, 4.8kW rated, we'll say 4.2kW after inefficiencies, would still get it done in just a bit over 7 hours. Obviously, this is assuming a 60-mile commute, and assuming that commute isn't where its super cold. That's higher than the average commute, but there's definitely a lot of people who drive more than that in an average day. But how long does your car stay parked? I usually get home from my day of being out before 7:00 PM or so, and then it has about 12 hours of sitting still before it is needed again. How long does your car sit most days? YMMV, different people have different transportation needs, EVs don't make sense for everyone in every situation today. That said, plenty of Lightning buyers don't need an 80A circuit to charge their truck, even a 32A circuit would often be more than enough to meet their realistic needs. Sure, it impacts charging times, but I imagine in most cases for a person who could be satisfied by an EV it won't make that much of a difference.
ericd 4y ago
The vast majority of people will only need a standard outlet overnight. Ours adds about 70 miles of range in the 14 hours it sits in the garage charging on a standard 120V/15A plug, and that’s more than we drive most days.
eldenbishop 4y ago
Yup. Every page on the PG&E site is pushing moving to electric cars and home charging but actually getting a panel upgrade that can support it has been a nightmare. Weeks between emails, no explanations for what steps we need to go through, now waiting for a few months for a technician to come out to check "flutter" on the nearest transformer. It's been nine months so far and I don't expect to have the project finished over a year from start.
Tagbert 4y ago
I managed EVs for about 10 years on 120v service using 8-12A service in my garage using regular outlets. It’s generally enough to recharge from daily usage. If you need to occasionally charge more and faster you can use a commercial charger.

by jms703 4y ago

chroma 4y ago

You shouldn't need help from the utility to add a charger in your garage. An electrician can do it. It's the same as adding an outlet for a dryer or oven.

dan353hehe 4y ago
I believe the OP is saying that the service to their house is underpowered. Meaning the wire conductors that run from their house aren’t rated for a lot of current. For example my house is only rated for 120 Amps total, and to upgrade that I would have to contact the electrical company and have them install new wires to my house.
cannaceo 4y ago
You need help from a utility if you have an old home without adequate service from the electric company. Common example is your home is on 100amp service and that is entirely consumed by TVs, kitchen appliances, HVAC, etc.
abfan1127 4y ago
this isn't necessarily true. Ford's Lightning has an 80A charger that many homes can't support. They do offer a slower charger, but it impacts charge times. https://chargers.ford.com https://chargers.ford.com
- _ea1k 4y ago
  Even with the Lightning, very few people would need an 80A for their daily usage. Though the dryer plug mentioned above would be a little on the low side. Even that would be good for between 100 and 150 miles per day.
- guhidalg 4y ago
  Do you really *need* an 80A charger if you're charging daily and overnight? 240V * 80A = 19.2 kW. The F-150 has a 98kWh battery. At 80A it charges in about 5 hours, though you likely wouldn't see 80A due to needing a current spike safety margin. If you halve the current, the car could charge in ~10 hours, and that's assuming you actually use the entire battery every day. I'm not saying it's ideal to have to charge every day, but IMO it's not a deal breaker. If you are fully charging every day, you can probably save a bit of gas money by getting an EV-favorable plan from your utility that encourages energy consumption at night. Anyway, I own a Tesla and I love never going to a gas station.
  - mmh0000 4y ago
    I have a Tesla S85 and Tesla's 80A charger (on a 100A circuit because of the safety margin you mention). I don't normally have to charge my car quickly, but there has been a few times have 80A available has come in super handy. To install the 80A charger, I had to upgrade the service panel on my house from a total of 100A service to 250A service. I also had to have a dedicated 100A circuit line run from the panel to the garage. Thankfully, I was able to do that using the same service line to the house that I already had. However, the power company wouldn't let me go higher than 250 without significant cost and time. Anyway, all that is to say, I LOVE my 80A charger, and you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
- vel0city 4y ago
  A Lightning is a bit of an extreme example as trucks are going to get pretty bad efficiency compared to something smaller. But we'll still use it to look at what charging is like with a smaller charger. The F150 Lightning is roughly rated for ~50kWh/100mi by the EPA, or ~2mi/kWh. A 60 mile daily round trip commute would then be ~30kWh. At home, I have a 32A J1772 charger. That's ~7.68kW its rated for, we'll call it 7.2kW after charging inefficiencies. 30 kW/h / 7.2kW = 4.166h. A 60 mile commute would easily be recharged in less than four and a half hours. Let's say you can't even handle a 32A charger overnight. A 20A charger, 4.8kW rated, we'll say 4.2kW after inefficiencies, would still get it done in just a bit over 7 hours. Obviously, this is assuming a 60-mile commute, and assuming that commute isn't where its super cold. That's higher than the average commute, but there's definitely a lot of people who drive more than that in an average day. But how long does your car stay parked? I usually get home from my day of being out before 7:00 PM or so, and then it has about 12 hours of sitting still before it is needed again. How long does your car sit most days? YMMV, different people have different transportation needs, EVs don't make sense for everyone in every situation today. That said, plenty of Lightning buyers don't need an 80A circuit to charge their truck, even a 32A circuit would often be more than enough to meet their realistic needs. Sure, it impacts charging times, but I imagine in most cases for a person who could be satisfied by an EV it won't make that much of a difference.

ericd 4y ago

The vast majority of people will only need a standard outlet overnight. Ours adds about 70 miles of range in the 14 hours it sits in the garage charging on a standard 120V/15A plug, and that’s more than we drive most days.

eldenbishop 4y ago

Yup. Every page on the PG&E site is pushing moving to electric cars and home charging but actually getting a panel upgrade that can support it has been a nightmare. Weeks between emails, no explanations for what steps we need to go through, now waiting for a few months for a technician to come out to check "flutter" on the nearest transformer. It's been nine months so far and I don't expect to have the project finished over a year from start.

Tagbert 4y ago

I managed EVs for about 10 years on 120v service using 8-12A service in my garage using regular outlets. It’s generally enough to recharge from daily usage. If you need to occasionally charge more and faster you can use a commercial charger.