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The overwhelming majority of people with Bitcoin are speculators. It's fairly useless as far as currencies go. It literally fails at the first requirement: it

by SR2Z 4y ago

The overwhelming majority of people with Bitcoin are speculators. It's fairly useless as far as currencies go. It literally fails at the first requirement: it's not a reliable store of value.

notch656a 4y ago
For most cases I would not consider it the best option. However I have used bitcoin codebase based coins for transactions where the time-span was short enough that it was a reliable store of value. Reliable store of value really depends on how long you intend to hold it. Dollars are a terrible store of value over 100 years and decent over 2 years. Several crypto coins are a bad store of value over 1 week but a decent one over a couple hours. There are certain circumstances where I think it may make sense for someone to pick an alternative currency; I'm not arguing it is superior to the rest of them.
- danans 4y ago
  > However I have used bitcoin codebase based coins for transactions where the time-span was short enough that it was a reliable store of value. > Several crypto coins are a bad store of value over 1 week but a decent one over a couple hours. What kind of (real world) transaction would need to rely on a cryptocurrency for value stability over a couple of hours time-span that wouldn't be served by fiat currency, which provides the same stability guarantees over that same time-span?
  - toqy 4y ago
    Buying drugs and other illegal things online
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    International transfer is a good use, as is irrevocable payment for purchased goods. There is also a strong real world value in countries where local currency is less stable and secure than crypto. Not all places have access to USD or foreign currency. There are interesting examples coming out of Argentina. Imagine living in a country where year over year inflation is ~100% and the government may periodically seize assets in your bank account.
    - bentcorner 4y ago
      > International transfer is a good use I think it could make a useful underlying tool to enable this but to be used directly by end user customers it'd be a tough sell. I've used Wise to transfer USD <-> CAD, if they use crypto to enable that (I don't think they do, but I guess they could), I couldn't really care less. I don't think your run of the mill consumer is going to want to use crypto to do the same thing. With smaller amounts the difference in cost is probably negligible, with larger amounts you could theoretically save more to make the effort worth it, but you have higher pressure to have more "traditional" assurances that nothing goes wrong.
    - danans 4y ago
      > International transfer is a good use, as is irrevocable payment for purchased goods. In what ways do cash bank transfers not work for international transfers or irrevocable payments?
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        International wire transfers can take 1 to 5 days, and Banks can seize or reverse the funds.
        danans 4y ago
        > and Banks can seize or reverse the funds. Why would they do that? I've never had that happen to me when I send an international transfer. But it's always been for innocuous things like "reimburse relative for vacation rental expenses"
        notch656a 4y ago
        I had a domestic wire temporarily seized for 2 days because a bank wanted to KYC me a second time, even though I'd already KYC to open the account. Yes I was made whole but it was unpleasant and I happily would have eaten the ~.30 of litecoin transaction fees and 0.1% crypto exchange fee to avoid that. Not to mention the wire cost me $15 in the first place and not everyone has ready access to a bank with free wires.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
jeffbee 4y ago
That's the first requirement of currency? I feel like you might have made that up. It seems to me that the general character of a currency is that it is a widely-accepted medium of exchange. There are loads of currencies around the world that serve their purpose without being an even slightly good store of value. The Turkish Lira, for example, has lost 90% of its value against the Dollar in 15 years, yet it is still the going currency in that country. Edit: after reading my comment I realized it might not be clear that bitcoin is astonishingly bad at imitating currency. Almost without exception trading it for goods and services is impossible.
- samatman 4y ago
  I like to say a currency: should be a store of value, could be a unit of account, and must be a medium of exchange.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lrvick 4y ago
I use Bitcoin as a currency all the time. It is cash for the internet. If used correctly, it is the only reliable way to buy things online without giving a central company like Visa or Mastercard a log of everything you buy and where you buy it. If you dollar cost average your acquisition of Bitcoin it smooths out the conversion risk and if anything the value against USD goes reliably up over a 3+ year window.
lupire 4y ago
Currencies, as the name hints, are used to transmit value, not hold it beyond the short term.

by SR2Z 4y ago

The overwhelming majority of people with Bitcoin are speculators. It's fairly useless as far as currencies go. It literally fails at the first requirement: it's not a reliable store of value.

notch656a 4y ago

For most cases I would not consider it the best option. However I have used bitcoin codebase based coins for transactions where the time-span was short enough that it was a reliable store of value. Reliable store of value really depends on how long you intend to hold it. Dollars are a terrible store of value over 100 years and decent over 2 years. Several crypto coins are a bad store of value over 1 week but a decent one over a couple hours. There are certain circumstances where I think it may make sense for someone to pick an alternative currency; I'm not arguing it is superior to the rest of them.

danans 4y ago
> However I have used bitcoin codebase based coins for transactions where the time-span was short enough that it was a reliable store of value. > Several crypto coins are a bad store of value over 1 week but a decent one over a couple hours. What kind of (real world) transaction would need to rely on a cryptocurrency for value stability over a couple of hours time-span that wouldn't be served by fiat currency, which provides the same stability guarantees over that same time-span?
- toqy 4y ago
  Buying drugs and other illegal things online
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  International transfer is a good use, as is irrevocable payment for purchased goods. There is also a strong real world value in countries where local currency is less stable and secure than crypto. Not all places have access to USD or foreign currency. There are interesting examples coming out of Argentina. Imagine living in a country where year over year inflation is ~100% and the government may periodically seize assets in your bank account.
  - bentcorner 4y ago
    > International transfer is a good use I think it could make a useful underlying tool to enable this but to be used directly by end user customers it'd be a tough sell. I've used Wise to transfer USD <-> CAD, if they use crypto to enable that (I don't think they do, but I guess they could), I couldn't really care less. I don't think your run of the mill consumer is going to want to use crypto to do the same thing. With smaller amounts the difference in cost is probably negligible, with larger amounts you could theoretically save more to make the effort worth it, but you have higher pressure to have more "traditional" assurances that nothing goes wrong.
  - danans 4y ago
    > International transfer is a good use, as is irrevocable payment for purchased goods. In what ways do cash bank transfers not work for international transfers or irrevocable payments?
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      International wire transfers can take 1 to 5 days, and Banks can seize or reverse the funds.
      - danans 4y ago
        > and Banks can seize or reverse the funds. Why would they do that? I've never had that happen to me when I send an international transfer. But it's always been for innocuous things like "reimburse relative for vacation rental expenses"
        notch656a 4y ago
        I had a domestic wire temporarily seized for 2 days because a bank wanted to KYC me a second time, even though I'd already KYC to open the account. Yes I was made whole but it was unpleasant and I happily would have eaten the ~.30 of litecoin transaction fees and 0.1% crypto exchange fee to avoid that. Not to mention the wire cost me $15 in the first place and not everyone has ready access to a bank with free wires.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

jeffbee 4y ago

That's the first requirement of currency? I feel like you might have made that up. It seems to me that the general character of a currency is that it is a widely-accepted medium of exchange. There are loads of currencies around the world that serve their purpose without being an even slightly good store of value. The Turkish Lira, for example, has lost 90% of its value against the Dollar in 15 years, yet it is still the going currency in that country. Edit: after reading my comment I realized it might not be clear that bitcoin is astonishingly bad at imitating currency. Almost without exception trading it for goods and services is impossible.

samatman 4y ago
I like to say a currency: should be a store of value, could be a unit of account, and must be a medium of exchange.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lrvick 4y ago

I use Bitcoin as a currency all the time. It is cash for the internet. If used correctly, it is the only reliable way to buy things online without giving a central company like Visa or Mastercard a log of everything you buy and where you buy it. If you dollar cost average your acquisition of Bitcoin it smooths out the conversion risk and if anything the value against USD goes reliably up over a 3+ year window.

lupire 4y ago

Currencies, as the name hints, are used to transmit value, not hold it beyond the short term.