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Knowing, acknowledging and accounting for one's own biases is just good science. You wouldn't use a thermometer that was always 10C too high to measure and rep

Knowing, acknowledging and accounting for one's own biases is just good science. You wouldn't use a thermometer that was always 10C too high to measure and reports temperatures, without pointing out that the thermometer has a 10C bias, would you? Why would you oppose introspection about oneself and one's own potential biases in knowledge production?

woooooo 4y ago
Explicitly enforcing biases towards a particular ideological project is not "unbiasing", though, it's more bias. Maybe I'm engaging in FUD and these people will be content with some minor efforts towards restraining bias, but in my experience it's never enough.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Maybe I am missing the part where is says there is a particular ideological project beyond better science? You act like bias isn't actually a problem in science, but when I think back to the number of studies recruiting on campus at my Highly Selective Undergrad Institution (TM), and cross reference that with the student population, it's really easy to understand the claims that science is WEIRD[1]. [1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/05/weird https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/05/weird
  - woooooo 4y ago
    You're describing a very legitimate sampling error problem. I'm describing forced ideological conformity. Both exist in academia today. If, in the spirit of the proposed "bias declaiming section", a social scientist made a point of saying that they're systematically biased against conservative and white/rural viewpoints, how do you think that would go over? Pat on the back for introspection?
    - arrrg 4y ago
      I think so, yeah, sure. Why don’t you think so? "Our own academic perspective limits us e.g. in our survey design and language, making it harder for us to connect with our respondents" is something I heard and learned over and over and over again.
      - woooooo 4y ago
        That's different. Your phrasing is politically neutral and could even be interpreted as centering blue-favored groups. My contention is that any "unbiasing" which said "we are going to lean conservative to counter our innate liberal bias" would not be welcomed. (I'm a liberal, btw, I just believe in calling a spade a spade. Don't call one-sided activism "unbiasing".)
        the_third_wave 4y ago
        Please don't add disclaimers like "I'm a liberal", it should not matter what your political opinions are. Shoot the message, not the messenger after all?
subjectsigma 4y ago
1. That's not what is happening here. There's no intention to use this to make science better. 2. Even if it was, some people are assumed to be "biased" based on silly things like the color of their skin or what gender they are. The bias-checking process is biased.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  This comment says a lot about your worldview, but not much about anything else.
  - subjectsigma 4y ago
    > I'm right, you're wrong Great argument > Account joined 34 days ago Nevermind, I'm sorry I said anything.
    - p0pcult 4y ago
      You made two wild assertions without any evidence.
4bpp 4y ago
When all the biases one is asked to acknowledge and account for are biases against one specific political movement and its symbols, this is an isolated demand for rigour (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...) and not necessarily good for science. To adapt your thermometer metaphor, if there were two types of thermometer in circulation, one 10C too high and one 10C too low, would demanding that people constantly remind each other, and where possible correct, for thermometers that output a temperature that is too high (and perhaps labelling any reference to the low-balling ones as dangerous misinformation by people who have a vested interest in high readings) actually improve the quality of scientific output? On the meta-analysis level, the opposite might happen, if the biases used to cancel out on average and now one of them is left standing unopposed.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  And which biases, specifically, are asked to be accounted for? My count on that page is zero.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
systemicdanna 4y ago
It’s not about biased tools though. I would use a device invented by a Nazi scientist. In fact we all benefit daily from scientific discoveries made in oppressive, violent, bigoted regimes.

woooooo 4y ago

Explicitly enforcing biases towards a particular ideological project is not "unbiasing", though, it's more bias. Maybe I'm engaging in FUD and these people will be content with some minor efforts towards restraining bias, but in my experience it's never enough.

p0pcult 4y ago
Maybe I am missing the part where is says there is a particular ideological project beyond better science? You act like bias isn't actually a problem in science, but when I think back to the number of studies recruiting on campus at my Highly Selective Undergrad Institution (TM), and cross reference that with the student population, it's really easy to understand the claims that science is WEIRD[1]. [1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/05/weird https://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/05/weird
- woooooo 4y ago
  You're describing a very legitimate sampling error problem. I'm describing forced ideological conformity. Both exist in academia today. If, in the spirit of the proposed "bias declaiming section", a social scientist made a point of saying that they're systematically biased against conservative and white/rural viewpoints, how do you think that would go over? Pat on the back for introspection?
  - arrrg 4y ago
    I think so, yeah, sure. Why don’t you think so? "Our own academic perspective limits us e.g. in our survey design and language, making it harder for us to connect with our respondents" is something I heard and learned over and over and over again.
    - woooooo 4y ago
      That's different. Your phrasing is politically neutral and could even be interpreted as centering blue-favored groups. My contention is that any "unbiasing" which said "we are going to lean conservative to counter our innate liberal bias" would not be welcomed. (I'm a liberal, btw, I just believe in calling a spade a spade. Don't call one-sided activism "unbiasing".)
      - the_third_wave 4y ago
        Please don't add disclaimers like "I'm a liberal", it should not matter what your political opinions are. Shoot the message, not the messenger after all?

subjectsigma 4y ago

1. That's not what is happening here. There's no intention to use this to make science better. 2. Even if it was, some people are assumed to be "biased" based on silly things like the color of their skin or what gender they are. The bias-checking process is biased.

p0pcult 4y ago
This comment says a lot about your worldview, but not much about anything else.
- subjectsigma 4y ago
  > I'm right, you're wrong Great argument > Account joined 34 days ago Nevermind, I'm sorry I said anything.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    You made two wild assertions without any evidence.

4bpp 4y ago

When all the biases one is asked to acknowledge and account for are biases against one specific political movement and its symbols, this is an isolated demand for rigour (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...) and not necessarily good for science. To adapt your thermometer metaphor, if there were two types of thermometer in circulation, one 10C too high and one 10C too low, would demanding that people constantly remind each other, and where possible correct, for thermometers that output a temperature that is too high (and perhaps labelling any reference to the low-balling ones as dangerous misinformation by people who have a vested interest in high readings) actually improve the quality of scientific output? On the meta-analysis level, the opposite might happen, if the biases used to cancel out on average and now one of them is left standing unopposed.

p0pcult 4y ago
And which biases, specifically, are asked to be accounted for? My count on that page is zero.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

systemicdanna 4y ago

It’s not about biased tools though. I would use a device invented by a Nazi scientist. In fact we all benefit daily from scientific discoveries made in oppressive, violent, bigoted regimes.