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I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two decided to walk out and were able to text me a nav point that I was able to meet them at (took all day to get there because of the snow and mud, but I made it and was able to pick them up). The other two stayed up there, and we sent probably 100 texts back and forth coordinating what turned into like 3 solid days of fighting to get up there with snowcats and get them back down. Multiple situational changes that we would have been hosed without. In the end, I spent like $80 on texts, but it was money well spent. I think it's great for people to have SOS built into their iPhone, but there needs to be a "use it now, pay later" or no one is going to activate it and actually have it available when they need it. The other half of the equation is that you really need to be able to send texts. The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive. That will keep a lot of people from using it. (Yes insurance exists, but hardly anyone has it). Being able to text your friends for help is substantially more useful. Being stuck on a backroad with no service, 5, 10, 20 miles from where anyone can be expected to drive by is a far more common scenario than breaking your leg at the top of a mountain and needing to be evacuated.

MarkMarine 4y ago
For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911.
- JadeNB 4y ago
  > For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. This is nothing special about the iPhone or the version; every cell phone is supposed to put through calls to 911: > All wireless phones, even those that are not subscribed to or supported by a specific carrier, can call 911. https://www.911.gov/calling-911/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.911.gov/calling-911/frequently-asked-questions/
  - amscanne 4y ago
    The parent comment is referring to the iPhone 14's ability to reach emergency services via a satellite network; this is indeed something special.
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      I was confused, because the parent comment says: > For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. The Emergency SOS seems explicitly to require activation, and to have a cost (eventually): > The service will be included for free for two years starting at the time of activation of a new iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro, and iPhone 14 Pro Max.4 So I assumed that the parent was referring to just calling 911 using the normal cell network, which can indeed be done, on any mobile phone (that is able to dial, of course), without activation or payment.
      - MarkMarine 4y ago
        It doesn’t require “activation, ” you try to call 911 and when you don’t have signal, the phone sends an emergency text message to the satellite network. Just read up on the feature, if you’re curious.
        pests 4y ago
        What about after the two year free period?
        MarkMarine 4y ago
        Seems like we’ll find out in a year or two no? No one knows right now but I’m not going to bag on a service that will save lives on the maybe chance that 2 years from now it might cost something but we don’t know what.
      - nneonneo 4y ago
- martyvis 4y ago
  >If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. Did you mean to say "work AS if you're calling 911"? The emergency message via satellite function has to be explicitly used instead of just calling 911
  - MarkMarine 4y ago
    Sure, kind of nitpicky, but sure. To the average user, they will try to dial 911, the iPhone won’t be able to complete a cellular 911 call and will then present the user with the UI for sending an emergency message to first responders. I don’t really see the need for distinction, except between an iPhone 14 and a 13, or an android, which would fail to make the 911 call and that’s it.
  - SpikeDad 4y ago
    No. If you're offgrid and try to call 911 the interface automatically offers to use Satellite services.
prescriptivist 4y ago
> The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive. With my inReach I pay for the insurance plan [1]. I do wilderness float/canoe/kayak trips and I have it for peace of mind in case I or somebody I'm with (or encounter) is immobilized, as I can walk out of most places I go to if my legs are working. I haven't been able to find any such option for the iPhone, which, amongst other things, means I'll be keeping my inReach. Though to be clear I don't know to what degree I would be on the hook for anything if I _did_ hit the SOS button. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/906397 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/906397
- DMell 4y ago
  I encourage people to know the laws in the state they are exploring as they are different across the board - some are at no cost to the individual while others have clauses. Additionally, know how your device works - end to end - regardless of what it is. You gain a lot of knowledge and life saving techniques by knowing the process that is kicked off, it's timeframe, etc.
Buttons840 4y ago
Does InReach require a monthly cost? Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you. All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.
- DMell 4y ago
  Yes there are monthly plans that have different features - such as number of texts, custom messages, tracking intervals, etc.
- dont__panic 4y ago
  Any personal locator beacon recommendations? It's one of those items that I could very much use during bike touring, hiking, and bikepacking... but I've never bought one because it seems like a very large cost for something I won't even test until it is a matter of life and death. Out of curiosity... is there any way to alert your local emergency department in advance of testing a beacon, so you can verify that it works?
  - lxgr 4y ago
    "Live testing" is discouraged: https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency_beacon-testing/ https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency_beacon-testing/
  - jzwinck 4y ago
    I dont own this but it is pretty much the standard: https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ These devices require a new battery every few years and that service includes a test done by the manufacturer. There is also a self test button on the device which does not send a message to the satellites. If you really feel the need to send test messages into space, they do support that but then you need a subscription (https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ https://www.acrartex.com/406link/). At that point you may as well buy a different device which has 2 way messaging included in the subscription. PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use.
lxgr 4y ago
> you really need to be able to send texts. I'd be surprised if Apple does not launch this as a paid feature sooner rather than later (possibly as a perk part of Apple One or one of their other subscription plans).
ingalls 4y ago
First off, super glad to hear your friends are out of the field safe. Want to address one point however: "The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive" In my experience on multiple SAR teams (Search and Rescue), this is almost never the case in North America. Search and Rescue is one of the few services that is almost uniformly free [1]. Thousands and thousands of volunteer hours every year keep it that way. In fact, the two most prominent professional organizations for SAR (NASAR [2] & MRA [3]) both have longstanding policies that teams should not charge for rescue. On a personal level, I can tell you that the majority of the rescues/recoveries I have worked in the last decade would have been easier or led to a better outcome if the subject had called earlier. Embarrassment and fear of cost are the two primary reasons I have had subjects quote as the reasons they delayed calling for rescue, even after they knew self-rescue would not be possible. When you realize self-rescue isn't possible, call us early. [1] The only counties that I know of that charge for rescue are in Utah: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54909102&itype=CMSID https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54909102&itype=CMS... [2] https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2009/05/billing-search-and-rescue-missions-yes-or-no https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2009/05/billing-search... [3] https://mra.org/what-is-mras-position-on-charging-for-search-and-rescue/ https://mra.org/what-is-mras-position-on-charging-for-search...
- giobox 4y ago
  While this is great to know, the SOS button is still fundamentally potentially a completely open-ended liability if you haven't taken Garmin's 30 buck annual insurance option for it. Even with that, you are only capped at $50k to best of my knowledge. Your Utah example illustrates this. In a real SOS situation the cost is likely immaterial, but I can absolutely understand why people would wait a bit longer than they should before pressing.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Having two-way communications would help tremendously, because then you can say "well, pressing the button will cost $100, but the person on the other end will know if I need rescue now or later".
  - 4y ago
michael1999 4y ago
Would sending your their location have been enough? Because that seems to be an option in addition to the 911 call.
- COGlory 4y ago
  Well, I knew where their tent was, but when the two walked out, they sent me the spot to meet them, and left the InReach up top. By the straightest path, they had about 5 miles to go. I had about 12 of bad road. I got there an hour late and thought I missed them. I spent another 2 hours looking for them before finally finding them (at dusk). I was actually about to leave and go call S&R. It turns out, the path path of least resistance turned into 10 miles, which is why it took so long. One had mild hypothermia when I found them. Ultimately, I wouldn't have known they were trying to walk out unless they could text me. Location is super helpful, and I wish we had more than one InReach as a group, as I would have found them more easily.
arb-spreads 4y ago
Agreed. Similar to the invention of seatbelts and other safety devices, safer technology induces risker behavior. Would be unfortunate to have an over-reliance on emergency services aided by these tools. Offer a few free texts a year and then charge like 5 bucks to text for a day or something.
exabrial 4y ago
Interesting observation: You prevented a "uh oh" from turning into an "we're dying" state. It sounds like your friends are pretty hardened for the backcountry, and they needed to get out, but it wasn't life-threatening (at the time). Something we should consider while designing these systems. I think the pricepoint of InReach services certainly prevent casual usage (sending memes, browsing instagram) but allows sufficient communication at a reasonable price to coordinate safely. Also, with 5ft of snow coming down, I have my doubts an iPhone would be able to reach out and touch a satellite. It'll be interesting to see some tests.
carabiner 4y ago
There is no bill for rescues in Montana per https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/missoula-gallatin-co-search-and-rescue-explain-rescue-costs https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/missoula-gallatin-co-searc.... It's much faster, safer to have professionals with helicopters to pick them up rather than getting snow cats up there.
- COGlory 4y ago
  I didn't realize this (back country newb, hence why I had the InReach) but I have heard horror stories about bills. Thanks for letting me know.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
No one is asking this but the rest i know about, so i find myself thinking "what on earth do you do with a rifle-shot-dead elk?", since I have no suburban-kid idea.
- LeifCarrotson 4y ago
  Leaving aside the option to take a side-by-side/ATV/snowmobile (with skid or trailer if needed) to solve the problem with horsepower, or the option of biological horses instead of petroleum horses: 1. You first field dress it - cut from sternum to tail and pull the entrails, leaving them in a pile in the woods for scavengers. That takes your elk from 700 lbs (you hope) to ~450 lbs. 2. Quarter it and hang the 4 ~100lbs quarters high in a tree safe from bears and wolves (but not cougars) and carry them out one at a time using a backpack with a frame and hip belt. Be sure to carry the prime cuts (backstraps) out with the first load. Watch for predators on the return trips. 3. It's becoming more common, too, to fully butcher the animal in the field, removing the bones, which reduces the load to haul down to about 200 lbs. The skin, ivory, and head (if you want those) add some weight. A Jet Sled in 2" of snow makes it surprisingly easy to haul an awful lot of elk and gear. As long as you're going across flat ground or downhill, that is - uphill is no fun at all. A whitetail here in Michigan is much easier, even a big one is only about 100 lbs after field dressing. You just lay it on a drag/tarp or in a sled (or, if you don't care about the skin staying pristine and aren't going over super rocky terrain, just tie a rope to the antlers and front legs) and drag it out.
  - prawn 4y ago
    In case this helps anyone else not from the US, a side-by-side is one of those bigger-than-a-quadbike vehicles. A buggy. Like Polaris, etc. I've seen loads on farms and trails and honestly never knew what they were called. Always assumed side-by-side was like a motorbike with a sidecar!
- COGlory 4y ago
  Great comment by LeifCarrotson pretty much explains it. I gutted and skinned it, removing each quarter, and the meat along the back, ribs, and neck. That took basically all day. I use a knife with a replaceable blade. The guts are held in by connective tissue near the spine. If the belly faces downhill when you open it, gravity starts to pull them out. I removed the lungs to get room to work (just indiscriminately slicing), and then reached up in the neck as high as possible, and cut the trachea and esophagus. Then I used a hatchet to cut through the pelvic bone, a sharp knife to basically excise the anus, and cut any remaining connective tissue from behind. Eventually, gravity did the rest. The big goal is to not puncture intestines, as they are gross and contain bacteria that will spoil the meat. To skin it, I started at a back leg, just making a cut, pulling the skin up, and seeing it's connected to muscle by very soft fat. You can pull on the skin, slice the fat, and the animal basically unwraps. You want to keep hair off the meat because again, bacteria. Front quarters are easy as there's no bone joint. They pop off quckly. Rear are harder, you need to find and cut the ligament(?) that holds the leg in the hip. Then, I put about half the elk on a children's sled, and pulled it (mercifully downhill or level) about 1.5 miles. Then, I went and got the other half. She was a cow, so no antlers to carry. Then, I hung all the meat in a frienda garage for about 2 days, took it home in several coolers, and fought off my dog while every evening for 4 evenings, I separated the muscle groups, and/or chunked meat to grind (lower quality meat gets turned into hamburger or sausage), vacuum sealed eveything, and froze it. I'm originally from Rhode Island, and this is only my third animal (first was a deer, then an antelope) so it was pretty overwhelming.
LeifCarrotson 4y ago
> there needs to be a "use it now, pay later" or no one is going to activate it and actually have it available when they need it I've been solo hiking, running, kayaking, and biking in areas without cell service since before cell phones were things people carried. Haven't needed emergency search-and-rescue in 20 years, so it's just never seemed like a good investment...that's $3600 I could have 'wasted' on a service I've never needed. But I would probably buy and carry an InReach if they offered use it now, pay later plans. I don't carry a PLB, because that would mean paying for insurance, and I'd more likely need a lift from my brother in a side-by-side than a helicopter from the sheriff's office (and the ruinous costs that would entail.... I plan to wear my Fenix 6 Pro for another 10 years, but if they came out with a version with InReach 2-way texts my wife would buy it RIGHT NOW, express shipping, not even a thought of waiting for Christmas. On the other hand, that's $3600 of profit for Apple/Garmin/Iridium/Globalstar/Spot that they're loathe to leave on the table until the one time in 20 years when I really need it.
- dave78 4y ago
  Depending on the location, perhaps getting your amateur radio license and a radio with APRS on it might help fill in some of the coverage gaps. I've heard (though cannot confirm personally) that there is often APRS coverage in remote areas that are otherwise not served by cellular.
  - error503 4y ago
    It depends a lot on the terrain and specific area whether a typical VHF/UHF ham radio will work. The range is much longer than cellular, but it is quite LOS, and repeater/digipeater sites with good coverage tend to be at established antenna sites for commercical broadcast or telecom. There'll be some more remote sites of course, but infrastructure and LOS is still more or less required. With many popular recreation areas up in uninhabited mountain valleys with no infrastructure and where building stuff is often prohibited, the chances of hitting a site aren't great unless you happen to be below a mountain microwave site or such. At least without hiking out of the valley, but that's hardly a condition you want to put on yourself for an emergency communicator. That said, it's not a bad thing to carry in your car, as there are plenty enough dead spots that would likely be covered by packet radio. It's just a lot less clear how to get help.
walrus01 4y ago
If you're seriously going to go into the back country in the rural western US states and Canada, and you have a good paying professional job, there is no excuse, in my opinion, not to spend $1000 on a full capability Iridium handset and the $50/month service plan that goes with it. If you really NEED to use it you won't care that it costs $1.20 a minute to make a call. https://www.iridium.com/products/iridium-9555/ https://www.iridium.com/products/iridium-9555/ People will happily spend $700 on an Arcteryx jacket and $400 boots but won't buy an Iridium handset. I truly don't understand.
- mthoms 4y ago
  I agree with your sentiment but I'd add that a full handset is overboard in many cases. An InReach mini (or similar) will work fine for many/most people
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MarkMarine 4y ago

For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911.

JadeNB 4y ago
> For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. This is nothing special about the iPhone or the version; every cell phone is supposed to put through calls to 911: > All wireless phones, even those that are not subscribed to or supported by a specific carrier, can call 911. https://www.911.gov/calling-911/frequently-asked-questions/ https://www.911.gov/calling-911/frequently-asked-questions/
- amscanne 4y ago
  The parent comment is referring to the iPhone 14's ability to reach emergency services via a satellite network; this is indeed something special.
  - JadeNB 4y ago
    I was confused, because the parent comment says: > For Emergency services there is no “activate and pay later” because you don’t need to activate, and you don’t need to pay. If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. The Emergency SOS seems explicitly to require activation, and to have a cost (eventually): > The service will be included for free for two years starting at the time of activation of a new iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro, and iPhone 14 Pro Max.4 So I assumed that the parent was referring to just calling 911 using the normal cell network, which can indeed be done, on any mobile phone (that is able to dial, of course), without activation or payment.
    - MarkMarine 4y ago
      It doesn’t require “activation, ” you try to call 911 and when you don’t have signal, the phone sends an emergency text message to the satellite network. Just read up on the feature, if you’re curious.
      - pests 4y ago
        What about after the two year free period?
        MarkMarine 4y ago
        Seems like we’ll find out in a year or two no? No one knows right now but I’m not going to bag on a service that will save lives on the maybe chance that 2 years from now it might cost something but we don’t know what.
    - nneonneo 4y ago
martyvis 4y ago
>If you have an iPhone 14 it’s supposed to just work if you’re calling 911. Did you mean to say "work AS if you're calling 911"? The emergency message via satellite function has to be explicitly used instead of just calling 911
- MarkMarine 4y ago
  Sure, kind of nitpicky, but sure. To the average user, they will try to dial 911, the iPhone won’t be able to complete a cellular 911 call and will then present the user with the UI for sending an emergency message to first responders. I don’t really see the need for distinction, except between an iPhone 14 and a 13, or an android, which would fail to make the 911 call and that’s it.
- SpikeDad 4y ago
  No. If you're offgrid and try to call 911 the interface automatically offers to use Satellite services.

prescriptivist 4y ago

> The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive. With my inReach I pay for the insurance plan [1]. I do wilderness float/canoe/kayak trips and I have it for peace of mind in case I or somebody I'm with (or encounter) is immobilized, as I can walk out of most places I go to if my legs are working. I haven't been able to find any such option for the iPhone, which, amongst other things, means I'll be keeping my inReach. Though to be clear I don't know to what degree I would be on the hook for anything if I _did_ hit the SOS button. https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/906397 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/906397

DMell 4y ago
I encourage people to know the laws in the state they are exploring as they are different across the board - some are at no cost to the individual while others have clauses. Additionally, know how your device works - end to end - regardless of what it is. You gain a lot of knowledge and life saving techniques by knowing the process that is kicked off, it's timeframe, etc.

Buttons840 4y ago

Does InReach require a monthly cost? Alternatively, you can spend about $200 one time on a personal locator beacon that requires no ongoing costs. It can't do two-way communication but activating it sends out a specific frequency picked up by satellites and is the equivalent of calling 911. Rescuers will come to help you. All serious hikers and outdoor adventurers should carry a personal locator beacon.

DMell 4y ago
Yes there are monthly plans that have different features - such as number of texts, custom messages, tracking intervals, etc.
dont__panic 4y ago
Any personal locator beacon recommendations? It's one of those items that I could very much use during bike touring, hiking, and bikepacking... but I've never bought one because it seems like a very large cost for something I won't even test until it is a matter of life and death. Out of curiosity... is there any way to alert your local emergency department in advance of testing a beacon, so you can verify that it works?
- lxgr 4y ago
  "Live testing" is discouraged: https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency_beacon-testing/ https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emergency_beacon-testing/
- jzwinck 4y ago
  I dont own this but it is pretty much the standard: https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ These devices require a new battery every few years and that service includes a test done by the manufacturer. There is also a self test button on the device which does not send a message to the satellites. If you really feel the need to send test messages into space, they do support that but then you need a subscription (https://www.acrartex.com/406link/ https://www.acrartex.com/406link/). At that point you may as well buy a different device which has 2 way messaging included in the subscription. PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use.

lxgr 4y ago

> you really need to be able to send texts. I'd be surprised if Apple does not launch this as a paid feature sooner rather than later (possibly as a perk part of Apple One or one of their other subscription plans).

ingalls 4y ago

First off, super glad to hear your friends are out of the field safe. Want to address one point however: "The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive" In my experience on multiple SAR teams (Search and Rescue), this is almost never the case in North America. Search and Rescue is one of the few services that is almost uniformly free [1]. Thousands and thousands of volunteer hours every year keep it that way. In fact, the two most prominent professional organizations for SAR (NASAR [2] & MRA [3]) both have longstanding policies that teams should not charge for rescue. On a personal level, I can tell you that the majority of the rescues/recoveries I have worked in the last decade would have been easier or led to a better outcome if the subject had called earlier. Embarrassment and fear of cost are the two primary reasons I have had subjects quote as the reasons they delayed calling for rescue, even after they knew self-rescue would not be possible. When you realize self-rescue isn't possible, call us early. [1] The only counties that I know of that charge for rescue are in Utah: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54909102&itype=CMSID https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54909102&itype=CMS... [2] https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2009/05/billing-search-and-rescue-missions-yes-or-no https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2009/05/billing-search... [3] https://mra.org/what-is-mras-position-on-charging-for-search-and-rescue/ https://mra.org/what-is-mras-position-on-charging-for-search...

giobox 4y ago
While this is great to know, the SOS button is still fundamentally potentially a completely open-ended liability if you haven't taken Garmin's 30 buck annual insurance option for it. Even with that, you are only capped at $50k to best of my knowledge. Your Utah example illustrates this. In a real SOS situation the cost is likely immaterial, but I can absolutely understand why people would wait a bit longer than they should before pressing.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Having two-way communications would help tremendously, because then you can say "well, pressing the button will cost $100, but the person on the other end will know if I need rescue now or later".
- 4y ago

michael1999 4y ago

Would sending your their location have been enough? Because that seems to be an option in addition to the 911 call.

COGlory 4y ago
Well, I knew where their tent was, but when the two walked out, they sent me the spot to meet them, and left the InReach up top. By the straightest path, they had about 5 miles to go. I had about 12 of bad road. I got there an hour late and thought I missed them. I spent another 2 hours looking for them before finally finding them (at dusk). I was actually about to leave and go call S&R. It turns out, the path path of least resistance turned into 10 miles, which is why it took so long. One had mild hypothermia when I found them. Ultimately, I wouldn't have known they were trying to walk out unless they could text me. Location is super helpful, and I wish we had more than one InReach as a group, as I would have found them more easily.

arb-spreads 4y ago

Agreed. Similar to the invention of seatbelts and other safety devices, safer technology induces risker behavior. Would be unfortunate to have an over-reliance on emergency services aided by these tools. Offer a few free texts a year and then charge like 5 bucks to text for a day or something.

exabrial 4y ago

Interesting observation: You prevented a "uh oh" from turning into an "we're dying" state. It sounds like your friends are pretty hardened for the backcountry, and they needed to get out, but it wasn't life-threatening (at the time). Something we should consider while designing these systems. I think the pricepoint of InReach services certainly prevent casual usage (sending memes, browsing instagram) but allows sufficient communication at a reasonable price to coordinate safely. Also, with 5ft of snow coming down, I have my doubts an iPhone would be able to reach out and touch a satellite. It'll be interesting to see some tests.

carabiner 4y ago

There is no bill for rescues in Montana per https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/missoula-gallatin-co-search-and-rescue-explain-rescue-costs https://nbcmontana.com/news/local/missoula-gallatin-co-searc.... It's much faster, safer to have professionals with helicopters to pick them up rather than getting snow cats up there.

COGlory 4y ago
I didn't realize this (back country newb, hence why I had the InReach) but I have heard horror stories about bills. Thanks for letting me know.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

No one is asking this but the rest i know about, so i find myself thinking "what on earth do you do with a rifle-shot-dead elk?", since I have no suburban-kid idea.

LeifCarrotson 4y ago
Leaving aside the option to take a side-by-side/ATV/snowmobile (with skid or trailer if needed) to solve the problem with horsepower, or the option of biological horses instead of petroleum horses: 1. You first field dress it - cut from sternum to tail and pull the entrails, leaving them in a pile in the woods for scavengers. That takes your elk from 700 lbs (you hope) to ~450 lbs. 2. Quarter it and hang the 4 ~100lbs quarters high in a tree safe from bears and wolves (but not cougars) and carry them out one at a time using a backpack with a frame and hip belt. Be sure to carry the prime cuts (backstraps) out with the first load. Watch for predators on the return trips. 3. It's becoming more common, too, to fully butcher the animal in the field, removing the bones, which reduces the load to haul down to about 200 lbs. The skin, ivory, and head (if you want those) add some weight. A Jet Sled in 2" of snow makes it surprisingly easy to haul an awful lot of elk and gear. As long as you're going across flat ground or downhill, that is - uphill is no fun at all. A whitetail here in Michigan is much easier, even a big one is only about 100 lbs after field dressing. You just lay it on a drag/tarp or in a sled (or, if you don't care about the skin staying pristine and aren't going over super rocky terrain, just tie a rope to the antlers and front legs) and drag it out.
- prawn 4y ago
  In case this helps anyone else not from the US, a side-by-side is one of those bigger-than-a-quadbike vehicles. A buggy. Like Polaris, etc. I've seen loads on farms and trails and honestly never knew what they were called. Always assumed side-by-side was like a motorbike with a sidecar!
COGlory 4y ago
Great comment by LeifCarrotson pretty much explains it. I gutted and skinned it, removing each quarter, and the meat along the back, ribs, and neck. That took basically all day. I use a knife with a replaceable blade. The guts are held in by connective tissue near the spine. If the belly faces downhill when you open it, gravity starts to pull them out. I removed the lungs to get room to work (just indiscriminately slicing), and then reached up in the neck as high as possible, and cut the trachea and esophagus. Then I used a hatchet to cut through the pelvic bone, a sharp knife to basically excise the anus, and cut any remaining connective tissue from behind. Eventually, gravity did the rest. The big goal is to not puncture intestines, as they are gross and contain bacteria that will spoil the meat. To skin it, I started at a back leg, just making a cut, pulling the skin up, and seeing it's connected to muscle by very soft fat. You can pull on the skin, slice the fat, and the animal basically unwraps. You want to keep hair off the meat because again, bacteria. Front quarters are easy as there's no bone joint. They pop off quckly. Rear are harder, you need to find and cut the ligament(?) that holds the leg in the hip. Then, I put about half the elk on a children's sled, and pulled it (mercifully downhill or level) about 1.5 miles. Then, I went and got the other half. She was a cow, so no antlers to carry. Then, I hung all the meat in a frienda garage for about 2 days, took it home in several coolers, and fought off my dog while every evening for 4 evenings, I separated the muscle groups, and/or chunked meat to grind (lower quality meat gets turned into hamburger or sausage), vacuum sealed eveything, and froze it. I'm originally from Rhode Island, and this is only my third animal (first was a deer, then an antelope) so it was pretty overwhelming.

LeifCarrotson 4y ago

> there needs to be a "use it now, pay later" or no one is going to activate it and actually have it available when they need it I've been solo hiking, running, kayaking, and biking in areas without cell service since before cell phones were things people carried. Haven't needed emergency search-and-rescue in 20 years, so it's just never seemed like a good investment...that's $3600 I could have 'wasted' on a service I've never needed. But I would probably buy and carry an InReach if they offered use it now, pay later plans. I don't carry a PLB, because that would mean paying for insurance, and I'd more likely need a lift from my brother in a side-by-side than a helicopter from the sheriff's office (and the ruinous costs that would entail.... I plan to wear my Fenix 6 Pro for another 10 years, but if they came out with a version with InReach 2-way texts my wife would buy it RIGHT NOW, express shipping, not even a thought of waiting for Christmas. On the other hand, that's $3600 of profit for Apple/Garmin/Iridium/Globalstar/Spot that they're loathe to leave on the table until the one time in 20 years when I really need it.

dave78 4y ago
Depending on the location, perhaps getting your amateur radio license and a radio with APRS on it might help fill in some of the coverage gaps. I've heard (though cannot confirm personally) that there is often APRS coverage in remote areas that are otherwise not served by cellular.
- error503 4y ago
  It depends a lot on the terrain and specific area whether a typical VHF/UHF ham radio will work. The range is much longer than cellular, but it is quite LOS, and repeater/digipeater sites with good coverage tend to be at established antenna sites for commercical broadcast or telecom. There'll be some more remote sites of course, but infrastructure and LOS is still more or less required. With many popular recreation areas up in uninhabited mountain valleys with no infrastructure and where building stuff is often prohibited, the chances of hitting a site aren't great unless you happen to be below a mountain microwave site or such. At least without hiking out of the valley, but that's hardly a condition you want to put on yourself for an emergency communicator. That said, it's not a bad thing to carry in your car, as there are plenty enough dead spots that would likely be covered by packet radio. It's just a lot less clear how to get help.

walrus01 4y ago

If you're seriously going to go into the back country in the rural western US states and Canada, and you have a good paying professional job, there is no excuse, in my opinion, not to spend $1000 on a full capability Iridium handset and the $50/month service plan that goes with it. If you really NEED to use it you won't care that it costs $1.20 a minute to make a call. https://www.iridium.com/products/iridium-9555/ https://www.iridium.com/products/iridium-9555/ People will happily spend $700 on an Arcteryx jacket and $400 boots but won't buy an Iridium handset. I truly don't understand.

mthoms 4y ago
I agree with your sentiment but I'd add that a full handset is overboard in many cases. An InReach mini (or similar) will work fine for many/most people

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