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This is known as life logging with adjacency to sousveillance and it’s a fascinating topic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifelog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/

This is known as life logging with adjacency to sousveillance and it’s a fascinating topic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifelog https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifelog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance We in general don’t want to be watched by others, but a managed record of our own activities can be extremely valuable, and even more so if you find yourself wrongly accused. Further it can be used to shine a light on corrupt officials, one example of this is the nycplacards exposes on twitter.

hirundo 4y ago
> Further it can be used to shine a light on corrupt officials Little Brother surveillance. It would be nice not to be surveilled at all, but since that's not an option the answer to "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" is us.
- thingification 4y ago
  In times past, it was obvious that it wasn't an option to avoid pervasive violence (by orders of magnitude compared to today). It was, though.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Also it was obviois that ut wasnt an option to avoid pervasive slavery. Or a class system where lords and kings have more right than you do, although we are kinda bringing that back.
    - runnerup 4y ago
      As a kid in the 90's in a city of 150,000 people it was stupidly easy to do most of an entire day's adventures anonymously and with either very little or entirely no record of my presence and activities. Yes, there were some cameras here and there, but you knew where they were and could avoid them. Cash was still accepted everywhere, you didn't have a cell phone and definitely didn't need a cell phone to go about your daily activities[0]. I definitely was able to walk/bike/bus/carpool wherever I wanted all day long as young as 6 years old and no one gave a shit except my parents. If I was lost (which happened often!) I'd just ask an adult to help me find my parents. Adults generally interacted with me either only in a professional context (as a clerk/ice cream truck salesman/etc) or if I went up to them and explicitly let them know I wanted their help. Not all my friends had the same level of freedom but most had enough to go to any of the parks in the nearby neighborhoods and play with friends until their individual family's established "curfew". If kids stayed out past their curfew, one parent would call each of the other parents and the other parent would drive around the area parks looking for their kid. Another kid or parent would generally be able to point them in the right direction and clear it up within 30 minutes. Occasionally my parents might forget to pick me up from sports practice and I'd sit outside the ice rink or school for 2-4 hours until they figured it out, usually in cases where I spent all my payphone quarters on food or arcade games. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scoots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scoots
- xerox13ster 4y ago
  Who watches the watchmen? The watched.
  - rzzzt 4y ago
    How many Watchmans would a watchman watch if watchmen could watch Watchmans?
    - ben_w 4y ago
      None, because justice is blind ;)
      - danuker 4y ago
        Good thing the executive and legislative branches are not blind. They are keenly observant of the benefits coming their way.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      It's the same show no matter matter how many times the watchman watches it, so one.
      - rzzzt 4y ago
        I was thinking of the small television that Sony produced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Watchman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Watchman
- danuker 4y ago
  Little Brother is one of Cory Doctorow's books: https://craphound.com/littlebrother/about/ https://craphound.com/littlebrother/about/ I read it and it was as fun as it was chilling.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
manholio 4y ago
The trouble with any such footage is that it can be used against you ("as the the defendant's own records show, they were present in the murder area") but they generally won't extricate you when produced by you, since you clearly have a motivation to use it selectively. So you showing a picture of yourself reading a book during what you claim is the murder night is not an alibi, because it could have been produced at any other time, and you will have a massive uphill battle in the court to authenticate that image, and risk even sink you further if you fail ("the defendant even prepared an alibi"). The only way I would accept a commercial product performing this always-on archiving is if: 1. It's encrypted by default with a strong key that can't be subpoenaed or circumvented. 2. The encoder generates its own random key upon installation which I don't know (recoding effectively random, undecodable data), and I then have to manually change the key if I expect to ever read the recording. Number 1 allows me to review and footage and only release it if it's in my interest, and number 2 affords me plausible deniability, if I don't release the key I can claim I did not know you need to set it manually. Sure, as long as you are the only nerd doing this, you don't need this complex setup, and you will probably get to use it the unencrypted footage only in your favor. But when it becomes widely accepted as a social norm (say, everyone wearing Google glasses), you can expect law enforcement will become aware of it as a cheap source of self-incriminatory evidence.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  I‘d be interested in knowing of any cases where someone who recorded their own activities used it as an alibi. Right now it's all theoretical. Dash cams are really strong evidence in traffic court, but this isn’t criminal so it has a lower bar. From the other end, body cam footage is powerful when worn by police, and cell phone evidence by bystanders are also strong evidence.
  - manholio 4y ago
    The body cam footage is a good example, it's deeply hated by the police and a frequent source of incriminatory evidence against the wearer. Since "you got nothing to hide", as the old saying goes, why not bodycam yourself and offer the authorities a great source of evidence they can use against yourself?
stcredzero 4y ago
a managed record of our own activities can be extremely valuable I've thought of this as a hardware product: A device that records your own voice and non vocal sounds, but which does not record the words of others. (That, plus maybe location and a video stream, provided one is in a location without "a reasonable expectation of privacy.") Perhaps it doesn't even have to be hardware at this point! Maybe this could be installed as an app on an older smartphone?
- fragmede 4y ago
  a throat mic would do the trick
  - stcredzero 4y ago
    Except, if it still faintly picks up the speech of others, then that's a violation of the law, and it opens one up for lawsuits.

hirundo 4y ago

> Further it can be used to shine a light on corrupt officials Little Brother surveillance. It would be nice not to be surveilled at all, but since that's not an option the answer to "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" is us.

thingification 4y ago
In times past, it was obvious that it wasn't an option to avoid pervasive violence (by orders of magnitude compared to today). It was, though.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Also it was obviois that ut wasnt an option to avoid pervasive slavery. Or a class system where lords and kings have more right than you do, although we are kinda bringing that back.
  - runnerup 4y ago
    As a kid in the 90's in a city of 150,000 people it was stupidly easy to do most of an entire day's adventures anonymously and with either very little or entirely no record of my presence and activities. Yes, there were some cameras here and there, but you knew where they were and could avoid them. Cash was still accepted everywhere, you didn't have a cell phone and definitely didn't need a cell phone to go about your daily activities[0]. I definitely was able to walk/bike/bus/carpool wherever I wanted all day long as young as 6 years old and no one gave a shit except my parents. If I was lost (which happened often!) I'd just ask an adult to help me find my parents. Adults generally interacted with me either only in a professional context (as a clerk/ice cream truck salesman/etc) or if I went up to them and explicitly let them know I wanted their help. Not all my friends had the same level of freedom but most had enough to go to any of the parks in the nearby neighborhoods and play with friends until their individual family's established "curfew". If kids stayed out past their curfew, one parent would call each of the other parents and the other parent would drive around the area parks looking for their kid. Another kid or parent would generally be able to point them in the right direction and clear it up within 30 minutes. Occasionally my parents might forget to pick me up from sports practice and I'd sit outside the ice rink or school for 2-4 hours until they figured it out, usually in cases where I spent all my payphone quarters on food or arcade games. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scoots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scoots
xerox13ster 4y ago
Who watches the watchmen? The watched.
- rzzzt 4y ago
  How many Watchmans would a watchman watch if watchmen could watch Watchmans?
  - ben_w 4y ago
    None, because justice is blind ;)
    - danuker 4y ago
      Good thing the executive and legislative branches are not blind. They are keenly observant of the benefits coming their way.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    It's the same show no matter matter how many times the watchman watches it, so one.
    - rzzzt 4y ago
      I was thinking of the small television that Sony produced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Watchman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Watchman
danuker 4y ago
Little Brother is one of Cory Doctorow's books: https://craphound.com/littlebrother/about/ https://craphound.com/littlebrother/about/ I read it and it was as fun as it was chilling.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

manholio 4y ago

The trouble with any such footage is that it can be used against you ("as the the defendant's own records show, they were present in the murder area") but they generally won't extricate you when produced by you, since you clearly have a motivation to use it selectively. So you showing a picture of yourself reading a book during what you claim is the murder night is not an alibi, because it could have been produced at any other time, and you will have a massive uphill battle in the court to authenticate that image, and risk even sink you further if you fail ("the defendant even prepared an alibi"). The only way I would accept a commercial product performing this always-on archiving is if: 1. It's encrypted by default with a strong key that can't be subpoenaed or circumvented. 2. The encoder generates its own random key upon installation which I don't know (recoding effectively random, undecodable data), and I then have to manually change the key if I expect to ever read the recording. Number 1 allows me to review and footage and only release it if it's in my interest, and number 2 affords me plausible deniability, if I don't release the key I can claim I did not know you need to set it manually. Sure, as long as you are the only nerd doing this, you don't need this complex setup, and you will probably get to use it the unencrypted footage only in your favor. But when it becomes widely accepted as a social norm (say, everyone wearing Google glasses), you can expect law enforcement will become aware of it as a cheap source of self-incriminatory evidence.

twobitshifter 4y ago
I‘d be interested in knowing of any cases where someone who recorded their own activities used it as an alibi. Right now it's all theoretical. Dash cams are really strong evidence in traffic court, but this isn’t criminal so it has a lower bar. From the other end, body cam footage is powerful when worn by police, and cell phone evidence by bystanders are also strong evidence.
- manholio 4y ago
  The body cam footage is a good example, it's deeply hated by the police and a frequent source of incriminatory evidence against the wearer. Since "you got nothing to hide", as the old saying goes, why not bodycam yourself and offer the authorities a great source of evidence they can use against yourself?

stcredzero 4y ago

a managed record of our own activities can be extremely valuable I've thought of this as a hardware product: A device that records your own voice and non vocal sounds, but which does not record the words of others. (That, plus maybe location and a video stream, provided one is in a location without "a reasonable expectation of privacy.") Perhaps it doesn't even have to be hardware at this point! Maybe this could be installed as an app on an older smartphone?

fragmede 4y ago
a throat mic would do the trick
- stcredzero 4y ago
  Except, if it still faintly picks up the speech of others, then that's a violation of the law, and it opens one up for lawsuits.