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Seeing news like this makes me sad initially because it feels like every "decent" tech company out there (Mozilla, Wikipedia come to mind) keeps getting sucked

• joemazerino 4y ago
  Agreed. I cut my Wikipedia donations out when I learned how they were spending my money.
• zozbot234 4y ago
  It's not just furthering the culture war; they've even funded an organization (SeRCH) that's all about peddling unscientific, unencyclopedic woo-woo (about their "intersectional scientific method" and "hyperspace") to vulnerable minority folks who are trying to get involved with real, actual science. An outrageous betrayal of Wikipedia's core mission.
  • melagonster 4y ago
    can you offer more information? I am interesting about this, but quickly search did not display anything related.
    • zozbot234 4y ago
      theserchfoundation.org They reportedly have a YouTube channel with long boring videos about their silly stuff.
  • bergenty 4y ago
  • zasdffaa 4y ago
    Can you provide links to any of this? I'm also unable to find any org called SeRCH, perhaps I mis-spelt it. edit: I repeat my request more strongly. I've looked more and even "intersectional scientific method" gets almost nothing except a couple of posts on twitter claiming the same and a website https://battlepenguin.com/politics/wikipedia-is-a-source-of-political-propaganda/ https://battlepenguin.com/politics/wikipedia-is-a-source-of-... which doesn't back anything up - are you affiliated with either of these? I am wondering if you are deliberately spreading FUD
    • jmcphers 4y ago
      Parent post is on target. Here is the website for the SeRCH organization: https://www.vanguardstem.com/serch https://www.vanguardstem.com/serch
      • zasdffaa 4y ago
        and where is the 'unscientific, unencyclopedic woo-woo'? And where is the evidence it's related to wikipedia?
        • zasdffaa 4y ago
        • MikePlacid 4y ago
          > And where is the evidence it's related to wikipedia? To WMF. Right there on their webpage. They are proud of it: https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/09/08/wikimedia-foundation-announces-first-grant-recipients-of-new-4-5-million-equity-fund/ https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/09/08/wikimedia-fo...
          • zasdffaa 4y ago
            Brill. It's only taken an hour to get the first solid piece of info. Now, where's the "unscientific, unencyclopedic woo-woo" and hyperspace?
  • mxmfldp 4y ago
    That's part of the culture war, "intersectional" in this context is an academic term rooted in the postmodern philosophy at the center of far left ideology. Intersectionality in the sense of Foucault posits that ways of knowing, like science, are socially constructed (along with other norms you may have heard about, like gender identity) and since they are socially constructed they are culturally relative. Since cultures are all equal in value under the ideology of intersectionality, traditional ways of knowing are considered equal to those held up by Western society, like science. You see, science is actually eurocentric, so supporting other ways of knowing is choosing the side in the culture wars that says we trust science because it's white and society is racist, therefore we must find a new "intersectional" scientific method I'm so sorry I explained this. I don't have the energy to find citations since my posts on HN always get flagged but I assure you that funding choice is absolutely part of furthering the culture war lol
    • bildung 4y ago
      That's false I fear. Intersectionality hasn't much to do with Foucault. It's a framework for analyzing multiple levels of discrimination occuring at the same time (say for someone having both a physical disability and mental illness). You could have just linked to wikipedia ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality IMO there's quite a bit to criticize in that approach, but calling it postmodernist relativism doesn't really fit.
      • dcow 4y ago
        Foucault is often considered the father of the ideas that underpin intersectionality, at least in the academic sense. Check out his wikipedia and read the section Influence and reception, specifically Critiques and engagements > Social constructionism and human nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault
      • MikePlacid 4y ago
        Here’s a sample of real life I’ve found through SeRCH Foundation (the entity that WMF is reportedly channeling my money to) website: https://conversations.vanguardstem.com/a-practical-guide-to-mentoring-across-intersections-c596496ee334 https://conversations.vanguardstem.com/a-practical-guide-to-... This [intersectional] approach requires both student and mentor to acknowledge that true professional development, incorporating belonging, requires affirmation, not assimilation. (The other striking example of affirmation, not assimilation I’ve seen in a textbook for future school teachers enrolled in SFSU credential program. There was a chapter in the textbook on how to recognize signs of a student belonging to a youth band culture - and how to respect and affirm it. No, I am not kidding.)
• BitwiseFool 4y ago
  >"keeps getting sucked into culture wars that distract from their core missions." I am conflicted because I believe in the Unix philosophy of "do one thing and do it well". Yet, from a 'culture war' standpoint the winning strategy appears to be intersectionality and saturating the movement's messaging in as many organizations and institutions as possible.
  • LudwigNagasena 4y ago
    Winning what?
  • plgonzalezrx8 4y ago
    And what exactly "winning" means to you?
    • BitwiseFool 4y ago
      Shaping public perception and forcing subjects to be discussed in realms not typically political or traditionally considered polarized.
• zwily 4y ago
  It’s great that the WP editors seem mostly united on this. It won’t matter though, WMF wants their money and will get the banners in the end.
• Eumenes 4y ago
  Wikimedia has also grown its headcount exponentially over the past few years. They have almost 1000 staff per linkedin, including a large HR/recruiting team. They're obviously setting up for growth. Which leads me to believe they'll abandon their mission and invest heavily into the culture wars.
• EnKopVand 4y ago
  What culture war? Is this some American thing?
  • seltzered_ 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#2014%E2%80%93present:_Broadening_of_the_culture_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war#2014%E2%80%93prese... - not necessarily just an American thing, but as an American it does feel that way when talking to friends in other countries and seeing memetics carry different meanings.
    • EnKopVand 4y ago
      Maybe I'm ignorant but I still don't really understand it. There is a picture of some protest with someone wielding an actual Nazi flag... Which is pretty fucked up, but it's also sort of hilarious to see it next to someone wearing a hippie straw hat, another person wearing a bicycle helmet and then, what I am assuming is another ultra right wing idiot with a viking shield. I'm Danish, I wonder what that those people would do if they knew that the viking culture they are appropriating was actually pretty "liberal". Homosexuality wasn't an issue, neither were mixing races or religions. They just recently discovered an Islamic Viking lord in Sweden. Anyway. If one side of the "culture war" is Nazis, then why is it a war? Don't get me wrong. It's not like we didn't have our share of village idiots who thought Bill Gates put Microchips in the Covid vaccines and thought the Face Masks were the end of democracy here in Denmark, but the vast majority of people who thought that Face Masks were stupid still wore them with the reasoning that they wouldn't hurt, even if they didn't help, and basically everyone above 18 got vaccinated. On a side note, I do wish our own village idiots would come up with their own conspiracies though. I mean, why couldn't our Queen be behind the Microchips instead of Bill Gates?
• asah 4y ago
  well... it seems mathematically inevitable: they have to constantly avoid corruption, so if there's a (say) 2% chance per year then over 30 years then there's a 45% chance of going to the dark side. the society solution is similar to how the body fights diseased cells: sure, try to avoid the corruption but also setup systems to replace corrupted companies/institutions.
• fghjs 4y ago
  > Seeing news like this makes me sad initially because it feels like every "decent" tech company out there (Mozilla, Wikipedia come to mind) keeps getting sucked into culture wars that distract from their core missions. Do you know if there is a good write-up anywhere of exactly why these organisations keep getting captured by this ideology? It feels like it just came out of nowhere and took over, and we are all expected to agree with the whole thing, otherwise we are labelled as bigoted, evil, etc. I know it's associated with being politically on the left, but personally, as a left-winger in a more traditional (class-based, economic) sense, I am baffled as to how it's been quietly switched to all this woke gibberish. I certainly didn't see it coming.
  • Multicomp 4y ago
    I don't claim to know, but this article may be part of a start? It was an interesting read to me. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-rise-and-fall-of-online-culture https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/the-rise-and-fall-of-o...
  • svieira 4y ago
    Any movement that believes they can immanentize the eschaton[1] is going to use any and all means at its disposal to do so. If all truth is relative [2] and competing lenses bring different goods (<aside>but from what absolute perspective do we call them goods?</aside>) then having more of them is IMPORTANT, right? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanentize_the_eschaton [2]: https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-bias/ https://newdiscourses.com/tftw-bias/
  • GameOfFrowns 4y ago
    >I know it's associated with being politically on the left, but personally, as a left-winger in a more traditional (class-based, economic) sense, I am baffled as to how it's been quietly switched to all this woke gibberish. I certainly didn't see it coming. The word on the street is that this has been pushed by the people who control Wall Street and mainstream media to subvert the Occupy Wall Street movement and the class war momentum it was gaining before and in 2011.
• knaekhoved 4y ago
  The dynamic here is fairly straightforward. When you have new growth industries like tech, there are a lot of badly-protected resources available. There is a class of people (often called the "professional managerial class", or "PMCs") who specialize in moving in and consuming these badly-protected resources. The most successful tactics for this kind of strategy come from leftist thinkers in the mid-to-late 20th century, so most of these people come from leftist backgrounds. That's why mozilla, wikimedia, etc. always have their resources parasitized towards hard left-leaning causes - because those people have the best institutional capture tactics.
• noobermin 4y ago
  Wait, I didn't see anything in the thread about this at all? EDIT: I've really really searched, where is the culture war topics everyone in this thread is talking about? This sounds like editors being upset about fundraising banners since WMF is financially well off.
  • akolbe 4y ago
    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2022-10-31/News_and_notes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2... and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Equity_Fund https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Equity_Fund
    • noobermin 4y ago
      This is not linked immediately in the twitter thread or in the rfc that I see when I click the link on twitter. The rfc understandably is long, so there's a lot to read and this equity fund is not one of the key focuses of the OP, so I still don't understand why it is being discussed here. Potential explanation: was the link changed?
      • akolbe 4y ago
        No, the Knowledge Equity Fund was the topic of another recent viral Twitter thread by @echetus that someone mentioned here in this discussion a few hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33609524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33609524
• deleted 4y ago
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