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Link to the actual discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC_on_the_banners_for_the_December_2022_fundraising_campaign ht

Link to the actual discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC_on_the_banners_for_the_December_2022_fundraising_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(propos...

PaulHoule 4y ago
Thanks! I'm not a fan of the links to Twitter not because of the recent insanity but because a Twitter discussion is frequently fragmented, paywalled, vacuous, etc. It's usually a rung up from Reddit but that's not saying much. As for Wikipedia, I regret giving them money in the past because i get endless breathless emails from Jimmy Wales now. I see their situation as tragic because with distributed teams and hiring people who are deeply motivated I'd think they could get dramatically better $ productivity than anybody else if they were willing to transcend their volunteer model and feed some money to Wikipedians to improve the product. I'm reminded of the social entrepreneur Paul Glover who was the founder of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours and frequently wrote "poison pills" into the bylaws of organizations he founded to prevent the "skim 90% of the money" situations that frequently cause successful NGOs to become separate from their constituents. For instance any organization he founded had a rule that the organization would never own a building.
- btrettel 4y ago
  Do you have a link or reference for details on Paul Glover's "poison pills"? I couldn't find much with a quick Google search so I don't think I have the right keywords.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Unfortunately, "personal communication". He told me about them.
    - Aachen 4y ago
      Any pointers on how this worked then? Usually whoever owns the business simply decides what happens to it, is this some sort of "I reserve the right to take back the business for 10% of its value" clause when selling it? Wikipedia hasn't been sold so not even that would work here.
      - PaulHoule 4y ago
        These were written into the bylaws of non-profit organizations. The board could have amended these, but I think these boards were closely watched by the community and it would have been very visible that this had been done. The point is that a NGO should recognize that NGOs by default go bad in a highly predictable way and should be organized to resist this.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

PaulHoule 4y ago

Thanks! I'm not a fan of the links to Twitter not because of the recent insanity but because a Twitter discussion is frequently fragmented, paywalled, vacuous, etc. It's usually a rung up from Reddit but that's not saying much. As for Wikipedia, I regret giving them money in the past because i get endless breathless emails from Jimmy Wales now. I see their situation as tragic because with distributed teams and hiring people who are deeply motivated I'd think they could get dramatically better $ productivity than anybody else if they were willing to transcend their volunteer model and feed some money to Wikipedians to improve the product. I'm reminded of the social entrepreneur Paul Glover who was the founder of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Hours and frequently wrote "poison pills" into the bylaws of organizations he founded to prevent the "skim 90% of the money" situations that frequently cause successful NGOs to become separate from their constituents. For instance any organization he founded had a rule that the organization would never own a building.

btrettel 4y ago
Do you have a link or reference for details on Paul Glover's "poison pills"? I couldn't find much with a quick Google search so I don't think I have the right keywords.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Unfortunately, "personal communication". He told me about them.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    Any pointers on how this worked then? Usually whoever owns the business simply decides what happens to it, is this some sort of "I reserve the right to take back the business for 10% of its value" clause when selling it? Wikipedia hasn't been sold so not even that would work here.
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      These were written into the bylaws of non-profit organizations. The board could have amended these, but I think these boards were closely watched by the community and it would have been very visible that this had been done. The point is that a NGO should recognize that NGOs by default go bad in a highly predictable way and should be organized to resist this.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]