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Yeah. A developer working on Tornado Cash in the Netherlands gets arrested nearly immediately for writing code. A rich boy playing with crypto and defrauding pe

Yeah. A developer working on Tornado Cash in the Netherlands gets arrested nearly immediately for writing code. A rich boy playing with crypto and defrauding people to the tune of billions, nope, not gonna even mention “crime” here.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> developer working on Tornado Cash in the Netherlands gets arrested nearly immediately Authorities publicly mooted Tornado Cash's complicity in money laundering January [1]. It was sanctioned in August after being used to launder millions in proceeds from hacks on 24 June and 2 August [2]. Two days later, Semenov was arrested [3]. Eight months is far from "nearly immediately." [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/01/21/is-tornado-cash-complicit-in-laundering-stolen-crypto-its-complicated-says-former-law-enforcement-agent/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/01/21/is-tornado-cash... [2] https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0916 https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0916 [3] https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/ https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado...
- monero-xmr 4y ago
  Tornado Cash was re-designated recently, a capitulation that the arguments from the Coin Center lawsuit have merit. https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1087 https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1087 Treasury acknowledges it is legal to access the website, view the source code, and none of the developers, DAO members, or users of the application are currently sanctioned by OFAC. The only thing that remains illegal is interacting as a US citizen with the deployed contracts on Ethereum since the time of the designation. The developer was arrested by Dutch authorities and is currently on remand until December and has not been charged. It's incredible that you can be arrested and held without charge for 90 days by Dutch authorities, but hey that's Europe. From the official Treasury FAQ: > OFAC has not designated Tornado Cash’s individual founders, developers, members of the DAO, or users, or other persons involved in supporting Tornado Cash at this time. However, all Tornado Cash property and interests in property are blocked, and U.S. persons cannot transact with Tornado Cash or deal in its property and interests in property, absent authorization from OFAC. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/1095 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... > While engaging in any transaction with Tornado Cash or its blocked property or interests in property is prohibited for U.S. persons, interacting with open-source code itself, in a way that does not involve a prohibited transaction with Tornado Cash, is not prohibited. For example, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from copying the open-source code and making it available online for others to view, as well as discussing, teaching about, or including open-source code in written publications, such as textbooks, absent additional facts. Similarly, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from visiting the Internet archives for the Tornado Cash historical website, nor would they be prohibited from visiting the Tornado Cash website if it again becomes active on the Internet. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/added/2022-09-13 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Tornado Cash was re-designated recently, a capitulation that the arguments from the Coin Center lawsuit have merit You're misreading an administrative action. The re-designation broadens Tornado Cash's alleged support for "North Korean hackers to the allegation that it supported the North Korean regime more generally" [1]. (Also, this entire discussion is a red herring.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-changes-sanction-reasons-virtual-currency-service-tornado-cash-2022-11-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-changes-sanction...
    - monero-xmr 4y ago
      The scope of the original order was quite broad. While Treasury asserts Tornado Cash has been used by North Koreans, they have now narrowed what they are banning to interacting with the sanctioned smart contract addresses by US persons and entities. The interesting argument at play is if they even have the authority to do that. Encrypted communications are also used by North Koreans, but we do not ban that for US people because, 1) it's math, and 2) there are valid reasons for privacy even if it assists North Korea. It is an open question for the courts if this is within the authority of Treasury to ban interacting with self-executing smart contracts.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        > Treasury asserts Tornado Cash has been used by North Koreans, they have now narrowed what they are banning This is false. The scope of the sanctions was untouched by the re-designation. Justification was broadened.
        monero-xmr 4y ago
        > As part of the SDN List entry for Tornado Cash, OFAC included as identifiers certain virtual currency wallet addresses associated with Tornado Cash, as well as the URL address for Tornado Cash’s website. Treasury says that originally the website itself was OFAC sanctioned. With the redesignation: > Similarly, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from visiting the Internet archives for the Tornado Cash historical website, nor would they be prohibited from visiting the Tornado Cash website if it again becomes active on the Internet. Now, it is not illegal to access the website. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/added/2022-09-13 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... The scope was narrowed in overt ways as clearly stated above, and for those of us closely following this story, there was a lot of worry that various people involved in Tornado Cash would have serious legal liability. That has been radically reduced.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
I doubt they have jurisdiction in the Bahamas's. The Netherlands is a country that really doesn't need all this crypto shit so this was a thinly veiled suggestion to Tornado and everyone else in this field to fuck off to Nassau and stop wasting regulators time.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> developer working on Tornado Cash in the Netherlands gets arrested nearly immediately Authorities publicly mooted Tornado Cash's complicity in money laundering January [1]. It was sanctioned in August after being used to launder millions in proceeds from hacks on 24 June and 2 August [2]. Two days later, Semenov was arrested [3]. Eight months is far from "nearly immediately." [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/01/21/is-tornado-cash-complicit-in-laundering-stolen-crypto-its-complicated-says-former-law-enforcement-agent/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/01/21/is-tornado-cash... [2] https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0916 https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0916 [3] https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/ https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado...

monero-xmr 4y ago
Tornado Cash was re-designated recently, a capitulation that the arguments from the Coin Center lawsuit have merit. https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1087 https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1087 Treasury acknowledges it is legal to access the website, view the source code, and none of the developers, DAO members, or users of the application are currently sanctioned by OFAC. The only thing that remains illegal is interacting as a US citizen with the deployed contracts on Ethereum since the time of the designation. The developer was arrested by Dutch authorities and is currently on remand until December and has not been charged. It's incredible that you can be arrested and held without charge for 90 days by Dutch authorities, but hey that's Europe. From the official Treasury FAQ: > OFAC has not designated Tornado Cash’s individual founders, developers, members of the DAO, or users, or other persons involved in supporting Tornado Cash at this time. However, all Tornado Cash property and interests in property are blocked, and U.S. persons cannot transact with Tornado Cash or deal in its property and interests in property, absent authorization from OFAC. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/1095 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... > While engaging in any transaction with Tornado Cash or its blocked property or interests in property is prohibited for U.S. persons, interacting with open-source code itself, in a way that does not involve a prohibited transaction with Tornado Cash, is not prohibited. For example, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from copying the open-source code and making it available online for others to view, as well as discussing, teaching about, or including open-source code in written publications, such as textbooks, absent additional facts. Similarly, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from visiting the Internet archives for the Tornado Cash historical website, nor would they be prohibited from visiting the Tornado Cash website if it again becomes active on the Internet. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/added/2022-09-13 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Tornado Cash was re-designated recently, a capitulation that the arguments from the Coin Center lawsuit have merit You're misreading an administrative action. The re-designation broadens Tornado Cash's alleged support for "North Korean hackers to the allegation that it supported the North Korean regime more generally" [1]. (Also, this entire discussion is a red herring.) [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-changes-sanction-reasons-virtual-currency-service-tornado-cash-2022-11-08/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-changes-sanction...
  - monero-xmr 4y ago
    The scope of the original order was quite broad. While Treasury asserts Tornado Cash has been used by North Koreans, they have now narrowed what they are banning to interacting with the sanctioned smart contract addresses by US persons and entities. The interesting argument at play is if they even have the authority to do that. Encrypted communications are also used by North Koreans, but we do not ban that for US people because, 1) it's math, and 2) there are valid reasons for privacy even if it assists North Korea. It is an open question for the courts if this is within the authority of Treasury to ban interacting with self-executing smart contracts.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Treasury asserts Tornado Cash has been used by North Koreans, they have now narrowed what they are banning This is false. The scope of the sanctions was untouched by the re-designation. Justification was broadened.
      - monero-xmr 4y ago
        > As part of the SDN List entry for Tornado Cash, OFAC included as identifiers certain virtual currency wallet addresses associated with Tornado Cash, as well as the URL address for Tornado Cash’s website. Treasury says that originally the website itself was OFAC sanctioned. With the redesignation: > Similarly, U.S. persons would not be prohibited by U.S. sanctions regulations from visiting the Internet archives for the Tornado Cash historical website, nor would they be prohibited from visiting the Tornado Cash website if it again becomes active on the Internet. Now, it is not illegal to access the website. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/added/2022-09-13 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/... The scope was narrowed in overt ways as clearly stated above, and for those of us closely following this story, there was a lot of worry that various people involved in Tornado Cash would have serious legal liability. That has been radically reduced.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

I doubt they have jurisdiction in the Bahamas's. The Netherlands is a country that really doesn't need all this crypto shit so this was a thinly veiled suggestion to Tornado and everyone else in this field to fuck off to Nassau and stop wasting regulators time.