5 ms·

No GPU means it gets pretty hot sometimes (don't even try watching videos, I've literally burned myself :'). Otherwise I'd say I could use it as a daily driver:

No GPU means it gets pretty hot sometimes (don't even try watching videos, I've literally burned myself :'). Otherwise I'd say I could use it as a daily driver: a bit clunky, needs some tinkering, but everything I personally need (VSCodium, Firefox, Docker, wifi, audio in the headphones) already works and works well. If you already have a MacBook you could use, just give it a try – you can dual-boot, so if it doesn't work you can go back to macOS and try it out again in a couple months. UPD: and of course, don't forget to sponsor the developers! Every little bit counts.

cultofmetatron 4y ago
> I've literally burned myself / That can't be good for the longevity of the device.... or of you for that matter
- notpushkin 4y ago
  It sure can't, which is why I'm not doing it anymore :-) For typical development setup (+ some music not from YouTube) it stays gently warm though (while macOS is stone-cold).
  - 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
    FWIW you can use mpv to play just the audio from any site supported by youtube-dl or yt-dlp (so youtube/twitch/a hundred other platforms): $ mpv --no-video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxxxxxxx or maybe even something like this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mpv#youtube-dl_audio_with_search https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mpv#youtube-dl_audio_with_s... I've been using a variation on this theme for years, don't even really know how YouTube looks these days
- judge2020 4y ago
  > for the longevity of the device.... I doubt it's really baking itself; most devices have a lower temperature target set in the software/firmware so that the user doesn't burn their lap, but the default thermal management behavior is done completely on-die.
  - queuebert 4y ago
    I always wonder whether the heat calculations are correct. For example, if you compute the equilibrium temperature in a room on a table, then you get a cooler temp than when sitting on a lap that is 98.6 F. If the temperature sensor is near the CPU (i.e. one boundary of the heat equation solution), then it might not see more than a degree or two difference in very different external environments.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  It's not so bad. You can burn yourself on a metal plate that is at 45 degrees. This temperature is manageable by the electronics inside.
viraptor 4y ago
FTR, GPU support is very close now and if you really want to you can try it yourself. Basic OpenGL and all desktops should work. (https://vt.social/@lina/109346469312488886 https://vt.social/@lina/109346469312488886) but yeah - definitely not working ootb yet.
- notpushkin 4y ago
  I'll give it a try sometime then, thanks for pointing out!
- nextos 4y ago
  I think right now the best option is to run macOS plus Nix for a Linux userland. However, once GPU support and microphone lands in linux-asahi or mainline, it will be probably good enough to switch to Linux. The webcam is currently WIP. That would make a more or less fully functional machine: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support It's a shame there's no comparable x86_64 machine right now. A ThinkPad or a Surface could fill in this gap, especially with a Ryzen CPU. However, at least in the EU, MacBook Airs are much cheaper. Plus, they are fanless. ARM-based machines from other manufacturers are also starting to appear, e.g. ThinkPad X13s. However, performance is still a bit behind M1 CPUs. Full Linux support may arrive sooner than for MacBook Airs, though. Booting Debian is not too hard right now: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Does-anybody-know-if-there-is-work-being-done-to-integrate-X13s-ARM-processor-with-linux/m-p/5175315 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Does-an...
  - viraptor 4y ago
    I missed the x13s, thank you for bringing it up. So... now that I moved my gaming to Linux on handheld, I can move my laptop Linux to Arm. The current possibilities feel both weird and exciting.
pabs3 4y ago
Hmm, I thought the GPU driver was already pretty good?
- Tsiklon 4y ago
  Good progress is being made with a GPU driver, but currently as released rendering is all being done in software.
  - sliken 4y ago
    Yes, software rendering you install asahi Linux. Although I've seen comments that the overall interactive desktop is faster than the dev's previous laptop with GPU acceleration. However great progress is being made on GPU driver. Check Alyssa Rosenzweig @alyssa@treehouse.systems and Asahi Linya @lina@vt.social on Mastodon. They have MPV (video playback) and a few 3d accelerated games @ 4k working. There's still a ton of work to be done, but it's making nice progress.
aykevl 4y ago
I believe the video decoder (h264 etc) is actually separate from the GPU.

cultofmetatron 4y ago

> I've literally burned myself / That can't be good for the longevity of the device.... or of you for that matter

notpushkin 4y ago
It sure can't, which is why I'm not doing it anymore :-) For typical development setup (+ some music not from YouTube) it stays gently warm though (while macOS is stone-cold).
- 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
  FWIW you can use mpv to play just the audio from any site supported by youtube-dl or yt-dlp (so youtube/twitch/a hundred other platforms): $ mpv --no-video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxxxxxxx or maybe even something like this: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mpv#youtube-dl_audio_with_search https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mpv#youtube-dl_audio_with_s... I've been using a variation on this theme for years, don't even really know how YouTube looks these days
judge2020 4y ago
> for the longevity of the device.... I doubt it's really baking itself; most devices have a lower temperature target set in the software/firmware so that the user doesn't burn their lap, but the default thermal management behavior is done completely on-die.
- queuebert 4y ago
  I always wonder whether the heat calculations are correct. For example, if you compute the equilibrium temperature in a room on a table, then you get a cooler temp than when sitting on a lap that is 98.6 F. If the temperature sensor is near the CPU (i.e. one boundary of the heat equation solution), then it might not see more than a degree or two difference in very different external environments.
rowanG077 4y ago
It's not so bad. You can burn yourself on a metal plate that is at 45 degrees. This temperature is manageable by the electronics inside.

viraptor 4y ago

FTR, GPU support is very close now and if you really want to you can try it yourself. Basic OpenGL and all desktops should work. (https://vt.social/@lina/109346469312488886 https://vt.social/@lina/109346469312488886) but yeah - definitely not working ootb yet.

notpushkin 4y ago
I'll give it a try sometime then, thanks for pointing out!
nextos 4y ago
I think right now the best option is to run macOS plus Nix for a Linux userland. However, once GPU support and microphone lands in linux-asahi or mainline, it will be probably good enough to switch to Linux. The webcam is currently WIP. That would make a more or less fully functional machine: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support It's a shame there's no comparable x86_64 machine right now. A ThinkPad or a Surface could fill in this gap, especially with a Ryzen CPU. However, at least in the EU, MacBook Airs are much cheaper. Plus, they are fanless. ARM-based machines from other manufacturers are also starting to appear, e.g. ThinkPad X13s. However, performance is still a bit behind M1 CPUs. Full Linux support may arrive sooner than for MacBook Airs, though. Booting Debian is not too hard right now: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Does-anybody-know-if-there-is-work-being-done-to-integrate-X13s-ARM-processor-with-linux/m-p/5175315 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Does-an...
- viraptor 4y ago
  I missed the x13s, thank you for bringing it up. So... now that I moved my gaming to Linux on handheld, I can move my laptop Linux to Arm. The current possibilities feel both weird and exciting.

pabs3 4y ago

Hmm, I thought the GPU driver was already pretty good?

Tsiklon 4y ago
Good progress is being made with a GPU driver, but currently as released rendering is all being done in software.
- sliken 4y ago
  Yes, software rendering you install asahi Linux. Although I've seen comments that the overall interactive desktop is faster than the dev's previous laptop with GPU acceleration. However great progress is being made on GPU driver. Check Alyssa Rosenzweig @alyssa@treehouse.systems and Asahi Linya @lina@vt.social on Mastodon. They have MPV (video playback) and a few 3d accelerated games @ 4k working. There's still a ton of work to be done, but it's making nice progress.

aykevl 4y ago

I believe the video decoder (h264 etc) is actually separate from the GPU.