6 ms·

Hint: it's not. I'm not asking much though: I just need a linux laptop which is fast (lots of rust compilations) and can stay for a whole day unplugged. Thunde

Hint: it's not. I'm not asking much though: I just need a linux laptop which is fast (lots of rust compilations) and can stay for a whole day unplugged. Thunderbolt connectivity to dock it at home (and use bigger screens) would be perfect. I don't need the GPU, I'm mainly using the terminal and the CPU in fast enough for that. But it's not even there: the CPU is heating even when doing nothing, the laptop doesn't sleep when closed (so the battery is draining too fast) , and thunderbolt is still far away. But under some conditions it's nice, even nicer than the XPS 15 i9 I had before. I'm giving some undisclosed amount to marcan monthly, and I hope it'll be "usable" (for me) soon.

osigurdson 4y ago
>> the laptop doesn't sleep when closed Linux is amazing but doing the right thing when you close the lid is a seemingly intractable problem for it. Maybe we need a hardware spec and a paid distro to finally solve these kinds of problems.
- bestouff 4y ago
  They know what to do, it just requires work and coordination with the upstream linux kernel (extending the PSCI api); still it's not done. But don't get mistaken, I like this machine very much. When it works, it works fast and very well.
- allisdust 4y ago
  Dell XPS is the only laptop where I have seen this working reliably. Worst part is that thanks to zram, many distros removed hibernate functionality. So its not possible now to either sleep or hibernate on many laptop/distro combinations. This makes Linux unusable in most cases due to battery drain (and some times even dangerous as laptop gets super hot inside bag etc).
  - bestouff 4y ago
    "Dell XPS" is too generic a term to be useful. I've got an old XPS 13 which works perfectly; I also got a newer XPS 15 (top of the line, 4500€) which never managed to sleep correctly (thanks to Intel s0ix hybrid-suspend) and often overheated in the bag. I got rid of the latter after 1 year, it was a mess to use.
    - allisdust 4y ago
      The one I have is 2021 XPS 13. May be the 15 model is wired different somehow.
  - t-3 4y ago
    My newer XPS laptop doesn't even have an S3 sleep state. At least it can hibernate under OpenBSD, I guess.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - loudmax 4y ago
    I can't speak for S4/suspend to disk level hibernation, but regular S3/sleep when I close the lid has worked perfectly for me since 2008. That isn't to say that it's worked out of the box. When I install Linux on a laptop, I'll put some effort into making sure everything works as wanted and this might involve adding kernel flags or mucking with dbus, and it certainly involves some research. If you expect any open source OS to behave like a proprietary OS you bought a license for, you're likely to be disappointed. If you come in with the expectation of learning to solve problems for yourself you'll fare much better.
    - dmm 4y ago
      Unfortunately s3 has been removed from everything after tiger lake in intel chips, replaced with s0ix, which has caused a bunch of problems. For example, https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k7xrtz/ill_have_whatever_intel_was_smoking_when_they/ https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k7xrtz/ill_have_w... Sleep works fine in my alder lake(12th gen) Framework on Fedora, as in it actually sleeps when you close the lid, but it won't last a week like a mac.
      - reacharavindh 4y ago
        By any chance do you know if AMD Ryzen CPUs retain the s3 sleep/resume facilities? As in can I get a Mac like suspend/resume behaviour with Ryzen and Linux?
        dmm 4y ago
        > As in can I get a Mac like suspend/resume behaviour with Ryzen and Linux? What do you mean? Reliably suspending on lid close? That will depend on the system. My 12th gen Framework with Fedora is very reliable in that way. Battery lasting a week+ when sleeping? Don't count on it but sleep time will depend on the system. Even s3 sleep varied a lot. Some systems wouldn't suspend ssd during s3, for example. Arguably s2idle/s0ix is more mac-like, in that it is faster to sleep/wakeup than s3, which can take 6-10 seconds. It's just not as well supported and is much more flexible, in the sense that the os has more control over what is running during sleep. Windows is supposedly takes a strategy of incrementally powering down devices as sleep duration increases to preserve battery.
  - barbariangrunge 4y ago
    My xps never hibernated properly and the battery started to swell, which messed up my touchpad
- easytiger 4y ago
  I've had no issues with his on ubuntu on my previous lenovo x1 carbon or on my recent dell xps 15. (Nor on my desktop)
- mh7 4y ago
  Well not even Windows can manage to sleep a 'modern standby' laptop reliably these days. I had to set hibernate on lid-close because Windows kept waking it up all the time even while closed.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I have always been curious why I have been seeing people with MacBooks close their lids and walk away at a moment’s notice for nearly 20 years, but I still do not expect to be able to do that from any non Macbook. Such a killer feature that one would think Microsoft would prioritize.
    - dvdkon 4y ago
      It used to work, S3 suspend is a problem-free experience on both Linux and Windows . But some genius thought that laptop hardware needed power management more like a phone without all the software being built for it, with no fallback.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        In my Windows experience since 2000, closing the lid to sleep did not work on Toshiba Satellite, HP NW8000 series business machines, HP Elitebook, Dell Precision, and still does not work on Dell Latitudes. And I believe those were all business grade laptops, except the Toshiba Satellite.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        At least on Linux, machines that have proper suspend states integrated into their CPU should get picked up by the kernel and managed properly. My T460s with an i7 6600u sleeps and hibernates just fine, but my 12700k desktop still doesn't know what to do in suspend/hibernation states. Hopefully AMD is doing better with this these days(?)
    - osigurdson 4y ago
      Microsoft has traditionally believed in abstractions (i.e. interfaces) while Apple believe in concrete implementations. Abstractions are flexible but always leak and therein lies the problems. I think the interface approach made sense I earlier days of computing. These days it is better to make a zillion, exactly the same computer like Apple does.

osigurdson 4y ago

>> the laptop doesn't sleep when closed Linux is amazing but doing the right thing when you close the lid is a seemingly intractable problem for it. Maybe we need a hardware spec and a paid distro to finally solve these kinds of problems.

bestouff 4y ago
They know what to do, it just requires work and coordination with the upstream linux kernel (extending the PSCI api); still it's not done. But don't get mistaken, I like this machine very much. When it works, it works fast and very well.
allisdust 4y ago
Dell XPS is the only laptop where I have seen this working reliably. Worst part is that thanks to zram, many distros removed hibernate functionality. So its not possible now to either sleep or hibernate on many laptop/distro combinations. This makes Linux unusable in most cases due to battery drain (and some times even dangerous as laptop gets super hot inside bag etc).
- bestouff 4y ago
  "Dell XPS" is too generic a term to be useful. I've got an old XPS 13 which works perfectly; I also got a newer XPS 15 (top of the line, 4500€) which never managed to sleep correctly (thanks to Intel s0ix hybrid-suspend) and often overheated in the bag. I got rid of the latter after 1 year, it was a mess to use.
  - allisdust 4y ago
    The one I have is 2021 XPS 13. May be the 15 model is wired different somehow.
- t-3 4y ago
  My newer XPS laptop doesn't even have an S3 sleep state. At least it can hibernate under OpenBSD, I guess.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- loudmax 4y ago
  I can't speak for S4/suspend to disk level hibernation, but regular S3/sleep when I close the lid has worked perfectly for me since 2008. That isn't to say that it's worked out of the box. When I install Linux on a laptop, I'll put some effort into making sure everything works as wanted and this might involve adding kernel flags or mucking with dbus, and it certainly involves some research. If you expect any open source OS to behave like a proprietary OS you bought a license for, you're likely to be disappointed. If you come in with the expectation of learning to solve problems for yourself you'll fare much better.
  - dmm 4y ago
    Unfortunately s3 has been removed from everything after tiger lake in intel chips, replaced with s0ix, which has caused a bunch of problems. For example, https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k7xrtz/ill_have_whatever_intel_was_smoking_when_they/ https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/k7xrtz/ill_have_w... Sleep works fine in my alder lake(12th gen) Framework on Fedora, as in it actually sleeps when you close the lid, but it won't last a week like a mac.
    - reacharavindh 4y ago
      By any chance do you know if AMD Ryzen CPUs retain the s3 sleep/resume facilities? As in can I get a Mac like suspend/resume behaviour with Ryzen and Linux?
      - dmm 4y ago
        > As in can I get a Mac like suspend/resume behaviour with Ryzen and Linux? What do you mean? Reliably suspending on lid close? That will depend on the system. My 12th gen Framework with Fedora is very reliable in that way. Battery lasting a week+ when sleeping? Don't count on it but sleep time will depend on the system. Even s3 sleep varied a lot. Some systems wouldn't suspend ssd during s3, for example. Arguably s2idle/s0ix is more mac-like, in that it is faster to sleep/wakeup than s3, which can take 6-10 seconds. It's just not as well supported and is much more flexible, in the sense that the os has more control over what is running during sleep. Windows is supposedly takes a strategy of incrementally powering down devices as sleep duration increases to preserve battery.
- barbariangrunge 4y ago
  My xps never hibernated properly and the battery started to swell, which messed up my touchpad
easytiger 4y ago
I've had no issues with his on ubuntu on my previous lenovo x1 carbon or on my recent dell xps 15. (Nor on my desktop)
mh7 4y ago
Well not even Windows can manage to sleep a 'modern standby' laptop reliably these days. I had to set hibernate on lid-close because Windows kept waking it up all the time even while closed.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I have always been curious why I have been seeing people with MacBooks close their lids and walk away at a moment’s notice for nearly 20 years, but I still do not expect to be able to do that from any non Macbook. Such a killer feature that one would think Microsoft would prioritize.
  - dvdkon 4y ago
    It used to work, S3 suspend is a problem-free experience on both Linux and Windows . But some genius thought that laptop hardware needed power management more like a phone without all the software being built for it, with no fallback.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      In my Windows experience since 2000, closing the lid to sleep did not work on Toshiba Satellite, HP NW8000 series business machines, HP Elitebook, Dell Precision, and still does not work on Dell Latitudes. And I believe those were all business grade laptops, except the Toshiba Satellite.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        At least on Linux, machines that have proper suspend states integrated into their CPU should get picked up by the kernel and managed properly. My T460s with an i7 6600u sleeps and hibernates just fine, but my 12700k desktop still doesn't know what to do in suspend/hibernation states. Hopefully AMD is doing better with this these days(?)
  - osigurdson 4y ago
    Microsoft has traditionally believed in abstractions (i.e. interfaces) while Apple believe in concrete implementations. Abstractions are flexible but always leak and therein lies the problems. I think the interface approach made sense I earlier days of computing. These days it is better to make a zillion, exactly the same computer like Apple does.