2 ms·

I never understood why tribal lands aren’t loopholes for almost any law?

KirillPanov 4y ago
Only state laws. And not all of them, but many. Tribes have no special privileges to circumvent federal laws unless specifically stated (e.g. Makah whaling rights nullify the Marine Mammal Protection Act) in a treaty. The rat's nest of auto dealership laws are all at the state level, largely because the other 49 states didn't want Michigan dictating the structure of their transportation sector.
yieldcrv 4y ago
There are a lot of unchallenged aspects amongst these 500+ different semi-sovereign nations They pretty much universally have extremely low physical infrastructure though, which limits anyone’s interest or ability to set up anything to do business. They also almost universally have extremely low administrative and legal infrastructure, with completely foreign and distinctive customs in each tribe, which really means arbitrary decisions after long negotiations. They are all too small to bother with, for most. And finally, they almost all universally distrust the entrepreneurs that would show up, because a history of exploitation that got them in this quagmire to begin with. But if you can imagine it, its likely possible. There have been or currently are data centers on tribal lands, operating with some theoretical legal edge. Heard it was cumbersome and bad service though. There are drug running corridors on unique tribes that straddle the US - Canada border with a river running between them. There are infinite permutations. Even with things being under Federal law, federal enforcement and federal prosecution has evidence gathering issues as well as obscurity in how to proceed, as well as having to weigh the perpetual political fallout of stirring the nest and symbiosis with the indigenous community. They don’t want some treaty challenged. They don't know how to bother or bring the case or win the case or deal with pursuing the case.
- from 4y ago
  Is rent-a-tribe for payday lending actually legal? It seems like courts have said the tribe needs to have some ownership and involvement in the day to day operations for immunity to apply.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    > It seems like courts have said the tribe needs Exhibit A of something that wouldn't apply to all tribes the same because they are too different. Some are more sovereign than others in some aspects. There is nothing uniform about the concept of indigenous lands, but the arbitrage comes from everyone treating them as an amorphous group. Even the most progressive and inclusive people do this, but fortunately it just comes down to reading comprehension. If you can read or are willing to read, you'll find some unchallenged and interesting thing you might be willing to pursue. You likely will have to go to the area to find what to read though, "area" because I'm not willing to call them all "tribes".
    - from 4y ago
      I admire your tremendous expertise in regulatory arbitrage. I read the decision in Washington State Dept. of Licensing v. Cougar Den and now I want to become versed in some of those obscure treaties from the 1800s lol.
      - yieldcrv 4y ago
        just keep in mind that Supreme Court case would have reached a different conclusion if it was ruled on a year later after RGB died and republicans got their appointment. but it doesn't matter because its done, at a certain level of nuance you are also playing the system and pulling strings at certain time periods to enshrine your own interests. treaties and interpretation of those treaties require an act of congress and they just aren't going to get involved a single 10,000 member tribe's issue. that's kind of a benefit of tribal issues being under the federal government, its too centralized (and bottlenecked), compared to being at municipal and state level.

Only state laws. And not all of them, but many. Tribes have no special privileges to circumvent federal laws unless specifically stated (e.g. Makah whaling rights nullify the Marine Mammal Protection Act) in a treaty. The rat's nest of auto dealership laws are all at the state level, largely because the other 49 states didn't want Michigan dictating the structure of their transportation sector.

yieldcrv 4y ago

There are a lot of unchallenged aspects amongst these 500+ different semi-sovereign nations They pretty much universally have extremely low physical infrastructure though, which limits anyone’s interest or ability to set up anything to do business. They also almost universally have extremely low administrative and legal infrastructure, with completely foreign and distinctive customs in each tribe, which really means arbitrary decisions after long negotiations. They are all too small to bother with, for most. And finally, they almost all universally distrust the entrepreneurs that would show up, because a history of exploitation that got them in this quagmire to begin with. But if you can imagine it, its likely possible. There have been or currently are data centers on tribal lands, operating with some theoretical legal edge. Heard it was cumbersome and bad service though. There are drug running corridors on unique tribes that straddle the US - Canada border with a river running between them. There are infinite permutations. Even with things being under Federal law, federal enforcement and federal prosecution has evidence gathering issues as well as obscurity in how to proceed, as well as having to weigh the perpetual political fallout of stirring the nest and symbiosis with the indigenous community. They don’t want some treaty challenged. They don't know how to bother or bring the case or win the case or deal with pursuing the case.

from 4y ago
Is rent-a-tribe for payday lending actually legal? It seems like courts have said the tribe needs to have some ownership and involvement in the day to day operations for immunity to apply.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  > It seems like courts have said the tribe needs Exhibit A of something that wouldn't apply to all tribes the same because they are too different. Some are more sovereign than others in some aspects. There is nothing uniform about the concept of indigenous lands, but the arbitrage comes from everyone treating them as an amorphous group. Even the most progressive and inclusive people do this, but fortunately it just comes down to reading comprehension. If you can read or are willing to read, you'll find some unchallenged and interesting thing you might be willing to pursue. You likely will have to go to the area to find what to read though, "area" because I'm not willing to call them all "tribes".
  - from 4y ago
    I admire your tremendous expertise in regulatory arbitrage. I read the decision in Washington State Dept. of Licensing v. Cougar Den and now I want to become versed in some of those obscure treaties from the 1800s lol.
    - yieldcrv 4y ago
      just keep in mind that Supreme Court case would have reached a different conclusion if it was ruled on a year later after RGB died and republicans got their appointment. but it doesn't matter because its done, at a certain level of nuance you are also playing the system and pulling strings at certain time periods to enshrine your own interests. treaties and interpretation of those treaties require an act of congress and they just aren't going to get involved a single 10,000 member tribe's issue. that's kind of a benefit of tribal issues being under the federal government, its too centralized (and bottlenecked), compared to being at municipal and state level.