7 ms·

The Kalevala (Crawford Translation, 1888)

142 points by LAC-Tech 4y ago

swquinn 4y ago
This is pretty cool, seeing the Kalevala on HN. This book was in my childhood home all the time because of Finnish ancestry on my mother’s side and the fact that Eino Friberg [1] was my great uncle who wrote the 1988/1989 English translation. I have only browsed the contents of the book though. This reminded me that I should really take a look at it again! [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eino_Friberg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eino_Friberg
Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
I've read a Russian translation (or, better to say, adaptation for children) when I was 10, and even in an adapted form this stuff is dark. Also, Turin's story by Tolkien was clearly inspired by Kalevala.
mradek 4y ago
I'm Indian guy and I have always been super into mythology since I was a kid. I remember reading an English version of this when I was in 5th or 6th grade and it kind of traumatized me with some of the tragic aspects of the story, but overall it was awesome. It also got me into Ensiferum and various metal bands lol. Huge fan of Indian, Egyptian, Nordic, and N. & S. American mythology.
grey413 4y ago
I can't recommend Scott Sandwich's condensed, light-heated translation of the Kalevala enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZhf-AcnIyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZhf-AcnIyw
marttt 4y ago
FWIW, The Kalevala and Kalevipoeg, the national epic of Estonia, are linked in many ways (not surprising since we are neighboring countries, and the languages are extremely similar). For example, Kalevipoeg swims to Finland over the gulf (50 miles) to find his kidnapped mother. He visits Ilmarine, the famous Finnish blacksmith -- also a character in Kalevala (Ilmarinen) --, wanting to buy a sword. A deal is made and followed by a feast -- during which, however, Kalevipoeg manages to fell the head of Ilmarine's son using that same sword. Ilmarine curses the special sword that took him 7 years to forge. The opening strophe of Kalevipoeg also mentions Vanemuine, the god of music ("Lend me your zither, O Vanemuine!"), which is very probably derived from Väinamöinen. In Estonia, I suppose everybody knows this sentence; one may occasionally hear it paraphrased in spoken language. (So... If you come to Estonia to launch a startup, maybe greeting your companions with "Laena mulle kannelt, Vanemuine!" would break some ice... or, not.) There's a great synopsis of Kalevipoeg on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevipoeg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevipoeg An English translation of Kalevipoeg (1895, by W.F. Kirby) is available on Sacred Texts as well. Not the actual 19,000+ verses, but an apparently very deep contextual explanation of the myths and surrounding culture. Great addition, even if you're actually interested in the Finnish Kalevala: https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/hoe/index.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/hoe/index.htm Really interesting to see something like this on the front page of HN!
robin_reala 4y ago
Kalevala is a pretty extraordinary text. If you’re looking for an epub of the same translation I put one together for SE last year.[1] The Crawford translation was the most lyrical I could find. It’s also worth reading up on Lönnrot’s linguistic / ethnological expeditions that he made to compile the text.[2] [1] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/elias-lonnrot/the-kalevala/john-martin-crawford https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/elias-lonnrot/the-kalevala... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrot#Linguistics_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrot#Linguistics...
- juki 4y ago
  Also, for those who speak Finnish, the materials that Lönnrot and others gathered are nowadays freely available online at the Suomen Kansan Vanhat Runot database: https://skvr.fi/ https://skvr.fi/
goto11 4y ago
Kalevala is a weird and amazing work. It is somewhat disjoint since it is assembled from various oral traditional and made into a single "epic" narrative by Elias Lönnrot. Scholars are still arguing about how much of the writing is Lönnrot himself and how much is his sources. The Kullervo cycle is a particulary harrowing sequence, which inspired Tolkien to write his own version of the story in English.
- euroderf 4y ago
  Didn't Lönnrot basically live on skis for a few years, collecting material ?
- fmajid 4y ago
  And an outstanding symphonic poem by Sibelius. It's also a remarkably nuanced warning about the effects of child abuse.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > Kalevala is a weird and amazing work. Indeed! It’s a foundation of modern western fantasy. It is not really an easy read, but fascinating nonetheless. > The Kullervo cycle is a particulary harrowing sequence, which inspired Tolkien to write his own version of the story in English. Which in turn was an inspiration for his Túrin saga (Narn i Chîn Húrin). The whole Kalevala had a profound effect on Tolkien, some patterns are also apparent in the Silmarilion.
- nabla9 4y ago
  Finnish scholars have said that "Kalevala is a prison of folk poetry" because it has become a canon that sidelined everything else. Kalevala contains what was considered great poetry in the 1800s. It has been sanitized to match norms of that time. There is much more more material. Even the Kanteletar, the sister opus for Kalevala compiled by Lönnrot has been ignored.
  - vintermann 4y ago
    That's a common complaint about collection work. I've heard it about an epic poem we have in Norway (not on the scope of Kalevala), Draumkvedet, or the song of the dream. Molkte Moe published a "restored" version in the 1890s, which I think is very good. But the purists complained that it supplanted the oral versions, of which there were many. (The final part of Draumkvedet, the "beautitudes" section listing good deeds and their rewards in the afterlife, is conspicuously similar to the Lyke-wake dirge to me.)
eesmith 4y ago
I learned about the Kalevala through MST3K, of all things. They did commentary on "The Day the Earth Froze", which is an edited version of the Soviet-Finnish film "Sampo" loosely based on the Kalevala. See it yourself, at https://youtu.be/yRhXcxx1SwM?t=958 https://youtu.be/yRhXcxx1SwM?t=958 .
- foobarian 4y ago
  I remember it from watching some weird black and white movie as a kid on some communist TV station. There was a long haired old man chanting "Kalevala show yourself" over and over again (all foreign stuff was subtitled for us). Nothing else stuck :-) (Edit: it's possible it was Sampo, even though that seems to be in color. We just didn't have color TVs back then).
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  Haha my girlfriend and I still sing the Sampo song. That movie is so disjointed that I didn’t even recognize this was that. And I still don’t know what the Sampo is!
  - juki 4y ago
    > And I still don’t know what the Sampo is! No one does. Sampo is basically just a magical MacGuffin that brings wealth to whoever has it. In Kalevala it is usually understood as a mill that creates infinite grain, salt and money, but different folk stories have different interpretations.
    - iggldiggl 4y ago
      Don Rosa wrote a Kalevala-based Scrooge McDuck story (The Quest for Kalevala), and a "mill that creates infinite grain, salt and money" (gold) is of course an ideal object of desire for ol' Scrooge.
  - goto11 4y ago
    > And I still don’t know what the Sampo is! You are not alone! Scholars are still debating it. It is some kind of magical device which create wealth, but there is a number of very different theories raging from a magical mill to the "pillar of the world".
scoopr 4y ago
For getting the melody right when reading, try for example this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bbYj8uxeq-fS62PGC0DeetJeEQ1O0ri https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bbYj8uxeq-fS62PGC0D...
raptorraver 4y ago
As a Finn it's both delightful and also bit sad to read the translation. First of all it's great that this is available for international friends but it's sad how much is lost in translation and how it's impossible to translate the beauty of ancient Finnish. It's quite far from the language we speak also and might be bit hard for us to understand but once you get into the flow (preferably by singing the poems in their original tones) there's nothing quite like them (judge yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRdCsEVFd4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRdCsEVFd4I) Here's the first verses as an example. Hope someone can enjoy the rhymes and rhythm without understanding the language. "Mieleni minun tekevi, aivoni ajattelevi lähteäni laulamahan, saa'ani sanelemahan, sukuvirttä suoltamahan, lajivirttä laulamahan. Sanat suussani sulavat, puhe'et putoelevat, kielelleni kerkiävät, hampahilleni hajoovat." "MASTERED by desire impulsive, By a mighty inward urging, I am ready now for singing, Ready to begin the chanting Of our nation's ancient folk-song Handed down from by-gone ages. In my mouth the words are melting, From my lips the tones are gliding,"
- nshm 4y ago
  Well, you can give them the link to The Song of Hiawatha, largely inspired by Kalevala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9b_VTW4FSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9b_VTW4FSE
- bradrn 4y ago
  I quite like the recording included on the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vaka_vanha_Vainamoinen.ogg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vaka_vanha_Vainamoinen.og...
- soundnote 4y ago
  I've seen the video before, but not the subtitles. They're some of the best flowing I've ever seen, highly recommended.
- msla 4y ago
  At once I leapt upon the poem English only (to my sorrow) For I know no word of Finnish (Least no word that's fit for HN); But the meter kept me nodding Kept my head from being stable As it cantered ever onwards "It's the Song of Hiawatha!" "Bastard nicked the walking rhythm From Longfellow's long-ass poem!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha
open-source-ux 4y ago
The radio series The Forum from the BBC discussed the The Kalevala in a 2021 episode (it's free to download). Three experts discuss The Kalevala with a stimulating discussion. The Kalevala: the Finnish epic that inspired a nation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszjws https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszjws Description: "When the Kalevala was published in 1835, Finland had a distinct cultural and linguistic identity but it had always been part of either the Swedish or the Russian empire. Neither did Finland have much of a literary tradition, but as the 19th-century progressed the Kalevala took on a symbolic role as the representation of a Finnish identity that fed into the movement for Finnish independence. Rooted in the folk culture of the Karelia region, a travelling doctor shaped the song texts into a story in a way which is still being debated today."
bombcar 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quest_for_Kalevala https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quest_for_Kalevala In case you needed it in a Donald Duck comic form.
deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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timonoko 4y ago
Google is so much better than bloody Crawford: https://users-abo-fi.translate.goog/jhindstr/dfyr_ugh_irg/Kalevala.txt?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://users-abo-fi.translate.goog/jhindstr/dfyr_ugh_irg/Ka...
- adrian_b 4y ago
  Thanks for this, it is really very funny.
mannerheim 4y ago
The Kalevala played an important role in the development of Finnish national identity, which the Russian empire slightly encouraged in order to make it more difficult for the Swedes to retake Finland, which had only recently been ceded to Russia at the time. Which is kind of ironic in a way, given the events of 1917. The epic heavily inspired Tolkien (who ended up adopting a number of Finnish influences in his elvish languages) and Jean Sibelius (himself born to a Swedish-speaking family, although Swedish-speaking Finnish nationalists were not uncommon), Finland's foremost composer after whom the both-loved-and-hated music composition software is named. His most famous work based on a story from the Kalevala is probably the Swan of Tuonela: https://youtu.be/HjyLWoJvtME https://youtu.be/HjyLWoJvtME
- Tainnor 4y ago
  > His most famous work based on a story from the Kalevala is probably the Swan of Tuonela Or Kullervo.

142 points by LAC-Tech 4y ago

This is pretty cool, seeing the Kalevala on HN. This book was in my childhood home all the time because of Finnish ancestry on my mother’s side and the fact that Eino Friberg [1] was my great uncle who wrote the 1988/1989 English translation. I have only browsed the contents of the book though. This reminded me that I should really take a look at it again! [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eino_Friberg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eino_Friberg

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

I've read a Russian translation (or, better to say, adaptation for children) when I was 10, and even in an adapted form this stuff is dark. Also, Turin's story by Tolkien was clearly inspired by Kalevala.

mradek 4y ago

I'm Indian guy and I have always been super into mythology since I was a kid. I remember reading an English version of this when I was in 5th or 6th grade and it kind of traumatized me with some of the tragic aspects of the story, but overall it was awesome. It also got me into Ensiferum and various metal bands lol. Huge fan of Indian, Egyptian, Nordic, and N. & S. American mythology.

grey413 4y ago

I can't recommend Scott Sandwich's condensed, light-heated translation of the Kalevala enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZhf-AcnIyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZhf-AcnIyw

marttt 4y ago

FWIW, The Kalevala and Kalevipoeg, the national epic of Estonia, are linked in many ways (not surprising since we are neighboring countries, and the languages are extremely similar). For example, Kalevipoeg swims to Finland over the gulf (50 miles) to find his kidnapped mother. He visits Ilmarine, the famous Finnish blacksmith -- also a character in Kalevala (Ilmarinen) --, wanting to buy a sword. A deal is made and followed by a feast -- during which, however, Kalevipoeg manages to fell the head of Ilmarine's son using that same sword. Ilmarine curses the special sword that took him 7 years to forge. The opening strophe of Kalevipoeg also mentions Vanemuine, the god of music ("Lend me your zither, O Vanemuine!"), which is very probably derived from Väinamöinen. In Estonia, I suppose everybody knows this sentence; one may occasionally hear it paraphrased in spoken language. (So... If you come to Estonia to launch a startup, maybe greeting your companions with "Laena mulle kannelt, Vanemuine!" would break some ice... or, not.) There's a great synopsis of Kalevipoeg on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevipoeg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalevipoeg An English translation of Kalevipoeg (1895, by W.F. Kirby) is available on Sacred Texts as well. Not the actual 19,000+ verses, but an apparently very deep contextual explanation of the myths and surrounding culture. Great addition, even if you're actually interested in the Finnish Kalevala: https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/hoe/index.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/hoe/index.htm Really interesting to see something like this on the front page of HN!

robin_reala 4y ago

Kalevala is a pretty extraordinary text. If you’re looking for an epub of the same translation I put one together for SE last year.[1] The Crawford translation was the most lyrical I could find. It’s also worth reading up on Lönnrot’s linguistic / ethnological expeditions that he made to compile the text.[2] [1] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/elias-lonnrot/the-kalevala/john-martin-crawford https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/elias-lonnrot/the-kalevala... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrot#Linguistics_work https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_L%C3%B6nnrot#Linguistics...

juki 4y ago
Also, for those who speak Finnish, the materials that Lönnrot and others gathered are nowadays freely available online at the Suomen Kansan Vanhat Runot database: https://skvr.fi/ https://skvr.fi/

goto11 4y ago

Kalevala is a weird and amazing work. It is somewhat disjoint since it is assembled from various oral traditional and made into a single "epic" narrative by Elias Lönnrot. Scholars are still arguing about how much of the writing is Lönnrot himself and how much is his sources. The Kullervo cycle is a particulary harrowing sequence, which inspired Tolkien to write his own version of the story in English.

euroderf 4y ago
Didn't Lönnrot basically live on skis for a few years, collecting material ?
fmajid 4y ago
And an outstanding symphonic poem by Sibelius. It's also a remarkably nuanced warning about the effects of child abuse.
kergonath 4y ago
> Kalevala is a weird and amazing work. Indeed! It’s a foundation of modern western fantasy. It is not really an easy read, but fascinating nonetheless. > The Kullervo cycle is a particulary harrowing sequence, which inspired Tolkien to write his own version of the story in English. Which in turn was an inspiration for his Túrin saga (Narn i Chîn Húrin). The whole Kalevala had a profound effect on Tolkien, some patterns are also apparent in the Silmarilion.
nabla9 4y ago
Finnish scholars have said that "Kalevala is a prison of folk poetry" because it has become a canon that sidelined everything else. Kalevala contains what was considered great poetry in the 1800s. It has been sanitized to match norms of that time. There is much more more material. Even the Kanteletar, the sister opus for Kalevala compiled by Lönnrot has been ignored.
- vintermann 4y ago
  That's a common complaint about collection work. I've heard it about an epic poem we have in Norway (not on the scope of Kalevala), Draumkvedet, or the song of the dream. Molkte Moe published a "restored" version in the 1890s, which I think is very good. But the purists complained that it supplanted the oral versions, of which there were many. (The final part of Draumkvedet, the "beautitudes" section listing good deeds and their rewards in the afterlife, is conspicuously similar to the Lyke-wake dirge to me.)

eesmith 4y ago

I learned about the Kalevala through MST3K, of all things. They did commentary on "The Day the Earth Froze", which is an edited version of the Soviet-Finnish film "Sampo" loosely based on the Kalevala. See it yourself, at https://youtu.be/yRhXcxx1SwM?t=958 https://youtu.be/yRhXcxx1SwM?t=958 .

foobarian 4y ago
I remember it from watching some weird black and white movie as a kid on some communist TV station. There was a long haired old man chanting "Kalevala show yourself" over and over again (all foreign stuff was subtitled for us). Nothing else stuck :-) (Edit: it's possible it was Sampo, even though that seems to be in color. We just didn't have color TVs back then).
Mistletoe 4y ago
Haha my girlfriend and I still sing the Sampo song. That movie is so disjointed that I didn’t even recognize this was that. And I still don’t know what the Sampo is!
- juki 4y ago
  > And I still don’t know what the Sampo is! No one does. Sampo is basically just a magical MacGuffin that brings wealth to whoever has it. In Kalevala it is usually understood as a mill that creates infinite grain, salt and money, but different folk stories have different interpretations.
  - iggldiggl 4y ago
    Don Rosa wrote a Kalevala-based Scrooge McDuck story (The Quest for Kalevala), and a "mill that creates infinite grain, salt and money" (gold) is of course an ideal object of desire for ol' Scrooge.
- goto11 4y ago
  > And I still don’t know what the Sampo is! You are not alone! Scholars are still debating it. It is some kind of magical device which create wealth, but there is a number of very different theories raging from a magical mill to the "pillar of the world".

scoopr 4y ago

For getting the melody right when reading, try for example this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bbYj8uxeq-fS62PGC0DeetJeEQ1O0ri https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_bbYj8uxeq-fS62PGC0D...

raptorraver 4y ago

As a Finn it's both delightful and also bit sad to read the translation. First of all it's great that this is available for international friends but it's sad how much is lost in translation and how it's impossible to translate the beauty of ancient Finnish. It's quite far from the language we speak also and might be bit hard for us to understand but once you get into the flow (preferably by singing the poems in their original tones) there's nothing quite like them (judge yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRdCsEVFd4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRdCsEVFd4I) Here's the first verses as an example. Hope someone can enjoy the rhymes and rhythm without understanding the language. "Mieleni minun tekevi, aivoni ajattelevi lähteäni laulamahan, saa'ani sanelemahan, sukuvirttä suoltamahan, lajivirttä laulamahan. Sanat suussani sulavat, puhe'et putoelevat, kielelleni kerkiävät, hampahilleni hajoovat." "MASTERED by desire impulsive, By a mighty inward urging, I am ready now for singing, Ready to begin the chanting Of our nation's ancient folk-song Handed down from by-gone ages. In my mouth the words are melting, From my lips the tones are gliding,"

nshm 4y ago
Well, you can give them the link to The Song of Hiawatha, largely inspired by Kalevala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9b_VTW4FSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9b_VTW4FSE
bradrn 4y ago
I quite like the recording included on the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vaka_vanha_Vainamoinen.ogg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vaka_vanha_Vainamoinen.og...
soundnote 4y ago
I've seen the video before, but not the subtitles. They're some of the best flowing I've ever seen, highly recommended.
msla 4y ago
At once I leapt upon the poem English only (to my sorrow) For I know no word of Finnish (Least no word that's fit for HN); But the meter kept me nodding Kept my head from being stable As it cantered ever onwards "It's the Song of Hiawatha!" "Bastard nicked the walking rhythm From Longfellow's long-ass poem!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Hiawatha

open-source-ux 4y ago

The radio series The Forum from the BBC discussed the The Kalevala in a 2021 episode (it's free to download). Three experts discuss The Kalevala with a stimulating discussion. The Kalevala: the Finnish epic that inspired a nation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszjws https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszjws Description: "When the Kalevala was published in 1835, Finland had a distinct cultural and linguistic identity but it had always been part of either the Swedish or the Russian empire. Neither did Finland have much of a literary tradition, but as the 19th-century progressed the Kalevala took on a symbolic role as the representation of a Finnish identity that fed into the movement for Finnish independence. Rooted in the folk culture of the Karelia region, a travelling doctor shaped the song texts into a story in a way which is still being debated today."

bombcar 4y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quest_for_Kalevala https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quest_for_Kalevala In case you needed it in a Donald Duck comic form.

deleted 4y ago

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timonoko 4y ago

Google is so much better than bloody Crawford: https://users-abo-fi.translate.goog/jhindstr/dfyr_ugh_irg/Kalevala.txt?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=fi&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://users-abo-fi.translate.goog/jhindstr/dfyr_ugh_irg/Ka...

adrian_b 4y ago
Thanks for this, it is really very funny.

mannerheim 4y ago

The Kalevala played an important role in the development of Finnish national identity, which the Russian empire slightly encouraged in order to make it more difficult for the Swedes to retake Finland, which had only recently been ceded to Russia at the time. Which is kind of ironic in a way, given the events of 1917. The epic heavily inspired Tolkien (who ended up adopting a number of Finnish influences in his elvish languages) and Jean Sibelius (himself born to a Swedish-speaking family, although Swedish-speaking Finnish nationalists were not uncommon), Finland's foremost composer after whom the both-loved-and-hated music composition software is named. His most famous work based on a story from the Kalevala is probably the Swan of Tuonela: https://youtu.be/HjyLWoJvtME https://youtu.be/HjyLWoJvtME

Tainnor 4y ago
> His most famous work based on a story from the Kalevala is probably the Swan of Tuonela Or Kullervo.