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I find it curious Musk was able to snif out SBF as a bullshit artist in his 30 min. Meeting with him, whereas countless polititions and regulators aparently did

I find it curious Musk was able to snif out SBF as a bullshit artist in his 30 min. Meeting with him, whereas countless polititions and regulators aparently did not have a clue despite years of meetings and other contacts.

TotoHorner 4y ago
The politicians and regulators wanted SBF's money. Musk didn't need it.
mudrockbestgirl 4y ago
What a bunch of BS. It's obviously easy to say that in hindsight. There are a million reasons for why he did not take the investment, but in none of the published conversation was anything about him thinking SBF is lying. In fact, knowing Elon, if he had really said that at some point before FTX collapsed, he sure would have published it by now to prove how smart he is.
- highwaylights 4y ago
  bingo.
- memish 4y ago
  He was skeptical even though SBF wanted to give him money, not the other way around. And people Elon knew were pushing for SBF. Elon ended up ghosting him anyway. Look at the chat logs that were revealed in court. Michael Grimes [IBanker at Morgan Stanley]: Do you have 5 minutes to connect on possible meeting tomorrow I believe you will want to take? Elon: Will call in about half an hour Michael: Sam Bankman Fried is why I'm calling https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1514588820641128452 https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1514588820641128452 https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/sam-bank.man-fried-joe-biden-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/s... https://ftx.us https://ftx.us Elon: ?? Elon: I'm backlogged with a mountain of critical work matters. ls this urgent? Michael: Wants 1-Sb. Serious about partner w/you. Same security you own Michael: Not urgent unless you want him to fly tomorrow. He has a window tomorrow then he's wed-Friday booked Michael: Could do $5bn if everything vision lock. Would do the engineering for social media blockchain integration. Founded FTX crypto exchange. Believes in your mission. Major Democratic donor. So thought it was potentially worth an hour tomorrow a la the Orlando meeting and he said he could shake hands on 5 if you like him and I think you will. Can talk when you have more time not urgent but if tomorrow works it could get us $5bn equity in an hour Elon: Blockchain twitter isn't possible, as the bandwidth and latency requirements cannot be supported by a peer to peer network, unless those "peers" are absolutely gigantic, thus defeating the purpose of a decentralized network. Elon: ["disliked" "Could do $5bn ..."] Elon: So long as I don't have to have a laborious blockchain debate Elon: Strange that Orlando declined Elon: Please let him know that I would like to talk and understand why he declined Elon: Does Sam actually have $3B liquid? Michael: I think Sam has it yes. He actually said up to 10 at one point but in writing he said up to 5. He's into you. And he specifically said the blockchain piece is only if you liked it and not gonna push it. Orlando referred Sams interest to us and will be texting you to speak to say why he (Orlando) declined. We agree orlando needs to call you and explain given everything he said to us and you. Will make that happen We can push Sam to next week but I do believe you will like him. Ultra Genius and doer builder like your formula. Built FTX from scratch after MIT physics. Second to Bloomberg in donations to Biden campaign. https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#62 https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#62 Will MacAskill [co-creator of effective altruism movement, Oxford professor, Chair of board for Global Priorities Institute at Oxford]: Hey - I saw your poll on twitter about Twitter and free speech. I'm not sure if this is what's on your mind, but my collaborator Sam Bankman-Fried (https://www.forbes.com/profile/sam-bankman-fried/?sh=4de9866a4449 https://www.forbes.com/profile/sam-bankman-fried/?sh=4de9866...) has for a while been potentially interested in purchasing it and then making it better for the world. If you want to talk with him about a possible joint effort in that direction, his number is [redacted] and he's on Signal. Elon: Does he have huge amounts of money? Will: Depends on how you define "huge"! He's worth $24B, and his early employees (with shared values) bump that to $30B. I asked about how much he could in principle contribute and he said: "~$1-3b would be easy-$3-8b I could do ~$8-15b is maybe possible but would require financing" Will: If you were interested to discuss the idea I asked and he said he'd be down to meet you in Austin Will: He's based in the Bahamas normally. And I might visit Austin next week, if you'd be around? Will: That's a start Will: Would you like me to intro you two via text? Elon: You vouch for him? https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#12 https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#12
  - xdavidliu 4y ago
    > Elon: Blockchain twitter isn't possible, as the bandwidth and latency requirements cannot be supported by a peer to peer network, unless those "peers" are absolutely gigantic, thus defeating the purpose of a decentralized network. Anyone able to evaluate this comment? Is this another "poorly batched 1000 RPCs slowing down home timeline" remark?
    - 55555 4y ago
      It’s absolutely true.
    - searchableguy 4y ago
      No, it's true. Theoretical TPS limit for mainnet and L2s isn't enough to support the scale of twitter. The writes will get expensive very fast unless you offload that and only send a batched proof. Putting actual content on blockchain is a non-starter as well. Most of the blockchain based social graphs end up using centralized indexer. Everyone is also dependent on centralized RPC providers for querying and sending transactions since it requires a lot of resources to maintain your own. So peer to peer isn't possible at their scale depending on how you interpret it.
    - chubot 4y ago
      It's true, and the RPC comment is also very plausible It's definitely not as ridiculous as what lots of experienced engineers are oddly saying e.g. simply open up Twitter in Chrome's devtools and look at the networking tab -- I get 148 requests that finish in 6.3 seconds That is very plausibly "1000 poorly batched RPCs" that makes Twitter slow in other countries -- if it's 6 seconds for me, it's easily 20, 30, or 60 seconds for others It will be shocking to me if some executive attention on latency can't halve it, in short order. The problem with latency is that no one team is in charge of it -- every team is incentivized to use as much latency budget as possible to ship their feature. Larry Page harped on at this at Google for a decade, until he kind of gave up / moved on, and Google became nearly as slow as every other website. So Elon is absolutely doing the right thing with respect to latency -- he's not wrong, and he's not micro-managing. ---- Yes Elon is not infallible -- he made flatly wrong claims about self-driving for years, despite experts in the field telling him otherwise, to his financial benefit. And Tesla is being rightly investigated for those claims (years too late, probably) It doesn't mean that Twitter isn't slow as hell for extremely basic reasons
kingkawn 4y ago
Takes one to know one
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  I'm amazed that a man can build a company that literally created a reusable rocket and people will still call him a "bullshit artist". Also incredible how everyone on the left turned on Musk so quickly because he...tweeted some bad jokes? Strange reality we live in where your actions seem to matter so much less than your words. I thought it was the other way around.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Yizahi 4y ago
    People are acting towards him like that exactly because they praised him before and were holding him at high esteem. I certainly did. Now he started to disappoint people, multiple times. Nobody cares (much) about CEO of Comcast, or BP, or Electronic Arts. They have bad reputation and when they do something bad again, people just shrug and move on. While people with good reputation doing same things are discussed a lot. Also note that Comcast, BP, EA etc. are all successful businesses. They just shitty to humans, but successful. So founding a big successful technology company is a big achievement, but not a unique one.
    - TMWNN 4y ago
      >Also note that Comcast, BP, EA etc. are all successful businesses. They just shitty to humans, but successful. So founding a big successful technology company is a big achievement, but not a unique one. What nonsense. If Comcast didn't exist, some other company would provide cable service to its customers, and NBC would have another owner. If BP didn't exist some other oil company would be searching for petroleum in the Gulf of Mexico and northern Alaska. If EA had gone the way of Epyx, Synapse, SSI, or 99% of other video game companies founded in the early 1980s, its video games would have appeared under another publisher's banner. If Tesla[1] didn't exist, would the global e-car industry be anywhere close to what it is today? If SpaceX didn't exist, the odds are very, very high that the rocket industry would still be 100% expendables into the foreseeable future. [1] Yes, yes, I know Musk didn't found Tesla
highwaylights 4y ago
Yeah that never happened. The only thing clear from those messages was that he wanted the money and was simply asking if the guy was good for the cash. Musk and the religion that's built up around him in recent years exist in two separate realities.
SilverBirch 4y ago
Think we need to take that with a massive pinch of salt - Musk only came out and said that after the whole thing blew up. The actual contemporaneous messages are simply that SBF wanted block-chain twitter and Musk didn't. It's easy for all the SV people who didn't work with SBF to come out and act the genius now, but it's a bit self-serving.
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
Elon Musk is a master self promoter, so i would take what he says with a bit of caution.

TotoHorner 4y ago

The politicians and regulators wanted SBF's money. Musk didn't need it.

mudrockbestgirl 4y ago

What a bunch of BS. It's obviously easy to say that in hindsight. There are a million reasons for why he did not take the investment, but in none of the published conversation was anything about him thinking SBF is lying. In fact, knowing Elon, if he had really said that at some point before FTX collapsed, he sure would have published it by now to prove how smart he is.

highwaylights 4y ago
bingo.
memish 4y ago
He was skeptical even though SBF wanted to give him money, not the other way around. And people Elon knew were pushing for SBF. Elon ended up ghosting him anyway. Look at the chat logs that were revealed in court. Michael Grimes [IBanker at Morgan Stanley]: Do you have 5 minutes to connect on possible meeting tomorrow I believe you will want to take? Elon: Will call in about half an hour Michael: Sam Bankman Fried is why I'm calling https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1514588820641128452 https://twitter.com/sbf_ftx/status/1514588820641128452 https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/sam-bank.man-fried-joe-biden-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/recode/2021/3/20/22335209/s... https://ftx.us https://ftx.us Elon: ?? Elon: I'm backlogged with a mountain of critical work matters. ls this urgent? Michael: Wants 1-Sb. Serious about partner w/you. Same security you own Michael: Not urgent unless you want him to fly tomorrow. He has a window tomorrow then he's wed-Friday booked Michael: Could do $5bn if everything vision lock. Would do the engineering for social media blockchain integration. Founded FTX crypto exchange. Believes in your mission. Major Democratic donor. So thought it was potentially worth an hour tomorrow a la the Orlando meeting and he said he could shake hands on 5 if you like him and I think you will. Can talk when you have more time not urgent but if tomorrow works it could get us $5bn equity in an hour Elon: Blockchain twitter isn't possible, as the bandwidth and latency requirements cannot be supported by a peer to peer network, unless those "peers" are absolutely gigantic, thus defeating the purpose of a decentralized network. Elon: ["disliked" "Could do $5bn ..."] Elon: So long as I don't have to have a laborious blockchain debate Elon: Strange that Orlando declined Elon: Please let him know that I would like to talk and understand why he declined Elon: Does Sam actually have $3B liquid? Michael: I think Sam has it yes. He actually said up to 10 at one point but in writing he said up to 5. He's into you. And he specifically said the blockchain piece is only if you liked it and not gonna push it. Orlando referred Sams interest to us and will be texting you to speak to say why he (Orlando) declined. We agree orlando needs to call you and explain given everything he said to us and you. Will make that happen We can push Sam to next week but I do believe you will like him. Ultra Genius and doer builder like your formula. Built FTX from scratch after MIT physics. Second to Bloomberg in donations to Biden campaign. https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#62 https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#62 Will MacAskill [co-creator of effective altruism movement, Oxford professor, Chair of board for Global Priorities Institute at Oxford]: Hey - I saw your poll on twitter about Twitter and free speech. I'm not sure if this is what's on your mind, but my collaborator Sam Bankman-Fried (https://www.forbes.com/profile/sam-bankman-fried/?sh=4de9866a4449 https://www.forbes.com/profile/sam-bankman-fried/?sh=4de9866...) has for a while been potentially interested in purchasing it and then making it better for the world. If you want to talk with him about a possible joint effort in that direction, his number is [redacted] and he's on Signal. Elon: Does he have huge amounts of money? Will: Depends on how you define "huge"! He's worth $24B, and his early employees (with shared values) bump that to $30B. I asked about how much he could in principle contribute and he said: "~$1-3b would be easy-$3-8b I could do ~$8-15b is maybe possible but would require financing" Will: If you were interested to discuss the idea I asked and he said he'd be down to meet you in Austin Will: He's based in the Bahamas normally. And I might visit Austin next week, if you'd be around? Will: That's a start Will: Would you like me to intro you two via text? Elon: You vouch for him? https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#12 https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#12
- xdavidliu 4y ago
  > Elon: Blockchain twitter isn't possible, as the bandwidth and latency requirements cannot be supported by a peer to peer network, unless those "peers" are absolutely gigantic, thus defeating the purpose of a decentralized network. Anyone able to evaluate this comment? Is this another "poorly batched 1000 RPCs slowing down home timeline" remark?
  - 55555 4y ago
    It’s absolutely true.
  - searchableguy 4y ago
    No, it's true. Theoretical TPS limit for mainnet and L2s isn't enough to support the scale of twitter. The writes will get expensive very fast unless you offload that and only send a batched proof. Putting actual content on blockchain is a non-starter as well. Most of the blockchain based social graphs end up using centralized indexer. Everyone is also dependent on centralized RPC providers for querying and sending transactions since it requires a lot of resources to maintain your own. So peer to peer isn't possible at their scale depending on how you interpret it.
  - chubot 4y ago
    It's true, and the RPC comment is also very plausible It's definitely not as ridiculous as what lots of experienced engineers are oddly saying e.g. simply open up Twitter in Chrome's devtools and look at the networking tab -- I get 148 requests that finish in 6.3 seconds That is very plausibly "1000 poorly batched RPCs" that makes Twitter slow in other countries -- if it's 6 seconds for me, it's easily 20, 30, or 60 seconds for others It will be shocking to me if some executive attention on latency can't halve it, in short order. The problem with latency is that no one team is in charge of it -- every team is incentivized to use as much latency budget as possible to ship their feature. Larry Page harped on at this at Google for a decade, until he kind of gave up / moved on, and Google became nearly as slow as every other website. So Elon is absolutely doing the right thing with respect to latency -- he's not wrong, and he's not micro-managing. ---- Yes Elon is not infallible -- he made flatly wrong claims about self-driving for years, despite experts in the field telling him otherwise, to his financial benefit. And Tesla is being rightly investigated for those claims (years too late, probably) It doesn't mean that Twitter isn't slow as hell for extremely basic reasons

kingkawn 4y ago

Takes one to know one

spaceman_2020 4y ago
I'm amazed that a man can build a company that literally created a reusable rocket and people will still call him a "bullshit artist". Also incredible how everyone on the left turned on Musk so quickly because he...tweeted some bad jokes? Strange reality we live in where your actions seem to matter so much less than your words. I thought it was the other way around.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Yizahi 4y ago
  People are acting towards him like that exactly because they praised him before and were holding him at high esteem. I certainly did. Now he started to disappoint people, multiple times. Nobody cares (much) about CEO of Comcast, or BP, or Electronic Arts. They have bad reputation and when they do something bad again, people just shrug and move on. While people with good reputation doing same things are discussed a lot. Also note that Comcast, BP, EA etc. are all successful businesses. They just shitty to humans, but successful. So founding a big successful technology company is a big achievement, but not a unique one.
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    >Also note that Comcast, BP, EA etc. are all successful businesses. They just shitty to humans, but successful. So founding a big successful technology company is a big achievement, but not a unique one. What nonsense. If Comcast didn't exist, some other company would provide cable service to its customers, and NBC would have another owner. If BP didn't exist some other oil company would be searching for petroleum in the Gulf of Mexico and northern Alaska. If EA had gone the way of Epyx, Synapse, SSI, or 99% of other video game companies founded in the early 1980s, its video games would have appeared under another publisher's banner. If Tesla[1] didn't exist, would the global e-car industry be anywhere close to what it is today? If SpaceX didn't exist, the odds are very, very high that the rocket industry would still be 100% expendables into the foreseeable future. [1] Yes, yes, I know Musk didn't found Tesla

highwaylights 4y ago

Yeah that never happened. The only thing clear from those messages was that he wanted the money and was simply asking if the guy was good for the cash. Musk and the religion that's built up around him in recent years exist in two separate realities.

SilverBirch 4y ago

Think we need to take that with a massive pinch of salt - Musk only came out and said that after the whole thing blew up. The actual contemporaneous messages are simply that SBF wanted block-chain twitter and Musk didn't. It's easy for all the SV people who didn't work with SBF to come out and act the genius now, but it's a bit self-serving.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

Elon Musk is a master self promoter, so i would take what he says with a bit of caution.