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There's a long history of vaccine requirements, including in the US. For example, NY state requires that children attending daycare or school be vaccinated aga

There's a long history of vaccine requirements, including in the US. For example, NY state requires that children attending daycare or school be vaccinated against a range of pathogens. I don't know what you're envisioning happening with mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccination, or why you consider it a "ruse." A "ruse" for what, exactly? I don't think mandatory vaccination equals anyone's "loss of liberty." I don't think there's a right to not be vaccinated. It's a critical public health measure that brings huge benefits to society, and which imposes virtually no burden on the individual.

chiefalchemist 4y ago
Ruse? This is easy. Rewind and remember all that was promised with the vaccinations. The effectiveness. The long term safety (without *any* such testing). Remember the comparisons to other historic vaccinations by professionals well aware the mRNA technology was new and relatively untested. The Covid jab !== The Polio jab. Not even close. Remember how masks were required. Then remember the news that most masks are ineffective because the virus is smaller that what the masks can stop? How did we not know that? Why do some continue to push masks, even the ones that are effectively useless? Remember the guy (i.e., Biden) who talked down the divisiveness of others then shamelessly said, "It's a pandemic of the unvaccinated" forcing an unnecessary wedge between the citizens. For what? To get a jab that does perform as promised? To wear "government sanctioned" masks that don't do anything? For the record, being someone's guinea pig is not liberty. Being someone's political chew toy is not liberty. You can think what you want about public health and the mRNA jabs but don't confuse your confidence with liberty. The fact that many reasonable and intelligent people such as yourself have forgotten so many important details can only be explained by...a ruse. But that ok, just be sure to carry your Covid papers / Covid passport and you'll be safe.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  I still don't understand what the "ruse" is. A "ruse" is an attempt to achieve some ulterior goal, under the guise of something completely different. What ulterior motives are you alleging? > The effectiveness. The vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease and death, which was always their primary goal. If you go back and read the vaccine trial procedures on clinicaltrials.gov, you'll see that their "primary endpoint" was prevention of serious disease, and that preventing infection was viewed as the cherry on top - it wasn't the primary endpoint, and the trials weren't designed to test for infection. The fact that the mRNA vaccines protected so well against infection with the original strain was just an added bonus. > The long term safety (without any such testing). There was extremely rigorous safety testing. They followed tens of thousands of people for months. The "long term" aspect you're bringing up is unscientific. Based on the modern scientific understanding of the immune system, the types of long-term side-effects that anti-vaxxers posit are not possible, and there is no known example of such a side effect ever occurring with any vaccine. Vaccine side-effects always show up within a few months at most, and there was extensive testing to look for such side-effects. > The Covid jab !== The Polio jab. Not even close. You're right, but not in Ruhe way you think. The mRNA CoVID vaccines are far safer than the widely used oral polio vaccine. The alternative, the inactivated polio vaccine, doesn't prevent infection - it only prevents the infection from developing into paralytic disease. With polio, you have the choice between a safe vaccine that doesn't stop the virus from spreading, and a more effective vaccine that has a very small chance of paralyzing you. The polio vaccines are miracles of mid-20th-Century science, but they're old technology that could be (and are being) improved on with modern technology. One of the reasons mRNA vaccines have been deployed during this pandemic is that they are considered to be a much safer technology that many of the older alternatives. > don't confuse your confidence with liberty I don't agree with you on the definition of "liberty." I view the "liberty" to not get vaccinated as similar to the "liberty" to not wear a seatbelt or to buy a car without airbags. > But that ok, just be sure to carry your Covid papers / Covid passport and you'll be safe. If you travel around the world, you'll find that much more than just CoVID vaccination is required.

chiefalchemist 4y ago

Ruse? This is easy. Rewind and remember all that was promised with the vaccinations. The effectiveness. The long term safety (without *any* such testing). Remember the comparisons to other historic vaccinations by professionals well aware the mRNA technology was new and relatively untested. The Covid jab !== The Polio jab. Not even close. Remember how masks were required. Then remember the news that most masks are ineffective because the virus is smaller that what the masks can stop? How did we not know that? Why do some continue to push masks, even the ones that are effectively useless? Remember the guy (i.e., Biden) who talked down the divisiveness of others then shamelessly said, "It's a pandemic of the unvaccinated" forcing an unnecessary wedge between the citizens. For what? To get a jab that does perform as promised? To wear "government sanctioned" masks that don't do anything? For the record, being someone's guinea pig is not liberty. Being someone's political chew toy is not liberty. You can think what you want about public health and the mRNA jabs but don't confuse your confidence with liberty. The fact that many reasonable and intelligent people such as yourself have forgotten so many important details can only be explained by...a ruse. But that ok, just be sure to carry your Covid papers / Covid passport and you'll be safe.

DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
I still don't understand what the "ruse" is. A "ruse" is an attempt to achieve some ulterior goal, under the guise of something completely different. What ulterior motives are you alleging? > The effectiveness. The vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease and death, which was always their primary goal. If you go back and read the vaccine trial procedures on clinicaltrials.gov, you'll see that their "primary endpoint" was prevention of serious disease, and that preventing infection was viewed as the cherry on top - it wasn't the primary endpoint, and the trials weren't designed to test for infection. The fact that the mRNA vaccines protected so well against infection with the original strain was just an added bonus. > The long term safety (without any such testing). There was extremely rigorous safety testing. They followed tens of thousands of people for months. The "long term" aspect you're bringing up is unscientific. Based on the modern scientific understanding of the immune system, the types of long-term side-effects that anti-vaxxers posit are not possible, and there is no known example of such a side effect ever occurring with any vaccine. Vaccine side-effects always show up within a few months at most, and there was extensive testing to look for such side-effects. > The Covid jab !== The Polio jab. Not even close. You're right, but not in Ruhe way you think. The mRNA CoVID vaccines are far safer than the widely used oral polio vaccine. The alternative, the inactivated polio vaccine, doesn't prevent infection - it only prevents the infection from developing into paralytic disease. With polio, you have the choice between a safe vaccine that doesn't stop the virus from spreading, and a more effective vaccine that has a very small chance of paralyzing you. The polio vaccines are miracles of mid-20th-Century science, but they're old technology that could be (and are being) improved on with modern technology. One of the reasons mRNA vaccines have been deployed during this pandemic is that they are considered to be a much safer technology that many of the older alternatives. > don't confuse your confidence with liberty I don't agree with you on the definition of "liberty." I view the "liberty" to not get vaccinated as similar to the "liberty" to not wear a seatbelt or to buy a car without airbags. > But that ok, just be sure to carry your Covid papers / Covid passport and you'll be safe. If you travel around the world, you'll find that much more than just CoVID vaccination is required.