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On a scale of 0 (hiring at Twitter is as easy as possible) to 100 (Twitter can never hire anyone again) how bad is it now that Musk fired an employee in front o

On a scale of 0 (hiring at Twitter is as easy as possible) to 100 (Twitter can never hire anyone again) how bad is it now that Musk fired an employee in front of millions of users, especially since the employee was calling out obvious bullshit?

AmericanOP 4y ago
For specifically calling him out on a probable lie
- mathlover2 4y ago
  That too. Corrected ;) (I'm multitasking and on phone; pardon my terseness)
dymk 4y ago
Awaiting the lawsuit against him because of the obvious constructive dismissal going on
- gruez 4y ago
  On what grounds? Most of US is at will employment, so the worst that he's subject to is something like california's WARN act which requires 60 days notice. However, AFAIK the employees are still receiving a paycheck, just that they have nothing to do and are locked out of the company's systems.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    I just want to say that this attitude towards employment will likely be part of the eventual downfall of the USA. The reason ? It's too risky to tell your boss the truth so when things are going bad so it's easier just not to say anything, I noticed my American colleagues will often not say anything to "the grand leader", they will maybe even encourage stupidity. Where as when I worked in Europe, that doesn't happen. Not claiming those places are super powers, but I think this "shoot from the hip" American attitude towards staff will be it's undoing.
    - missingcolours 4y ago
      Nah. Everywhere I've ever worked, you can tell any boss things they don't want to hear. What you have to do is do it respectfully. I've told directors and VPs multiple levels up from me that I thought they were wrong about something in large meetings. I said it to their face and respectfully, and that was fine. As long as you understand your place and don't publicly trash your boss, there's normally no problem. The tweet in question here was... not that.
      - bmitc 4y ago
        Was his original tweet actually disrespectful? His CEO is openly ridiculing his own company's engineering teams, and he simply said that what Musk said was wrong. The second tweet had some more sass to it to match the tweet he was responding to, but it also wasn't all that bad. He points out the above in that Musk should be bringing these things up internally rather than publicly belittling his own employees with what appears to be incorrect information.
      - bamboozled 4y ago
        It's not about that, it's that you have to think and put a lot of mental energy into "being respectful" rather than just being straight forwards and direct. You have to wait for the right time etc. Giving feedback has higher risk and cost to it than it would otherwise be so why even do it? While I'm not claiming it's an immediate crisis, I think it is and will continue to become a net long term loss for corporate American culture. Musk is now teaching the world you can just fire people for saying anything you don't like without even a phone call, it will only make people more apprehensive to talk more freely.
        mathlover2 4y ago
        I think more than anything else Musk is teaching people to never apply to any company he owns under any circumstances. This isn't going to be treated as a role model for managers. It's going to be a model of exactly what not to do as a CEO, not just on HR issues, but everything else. I seriously don't see Twitter ever being able to hire a worker of any significant skill level ever again.
  - dymk 4y ago
    That’s not how constructive dismissal works. If your company decides they want to soft-layoff, they can’t just make it miserable and hope people quit. They’ll be sued, and courts will find the departures equivalent to a layoff if enough people leave.
atdrummond 4y ago
I suppose Elon misunderstood what “build in public” meant.
- bmitc 4y ago
  And free speech and everything else he touts. Yet again, it's an example of: don't tell Musk he is wrong, especially in public. Musk has also, presumably, removed the conversation shown here from Twitter: https://twitter.com/ichdertom/status/1592217628214722560/photo/1 https://twitter.com/ichdertom/status/1592217628214722560/pho...
  - kevinmchugh 4y ago
    What's the order of events here? Between "I can say this is wrong", this "what have you done?" exchange, and "he's fired"?
    - bmitc 4y ago
      I get the feeling it is in the order that you listed. The in between discussion doesn’t seem to show on Twitter unless one has the direct link.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  It's a shame because Elon was certainly enjoying the prerogative to shit on that team's work.
CoastalCoder 4y ago
TBH I was already pretty against working under Musk because of his previous speech and behavior. I think this was basically another instance of the same. It certainly cements my views.
hintymad 4y ago
Here might be another reason for not working for Musk: he asked an executive of his, Jerome Guillen, to "forfeit some unvested equity" because he thought that "some employees were making more from Tesla than he thought their contributions merited", per WSJ. I assume that Guillen was going to get the unvested equity if Musk didn't ask, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue at all.

AmericanOP 4y ago

For specifically calling him out on a probable lie

mathlover2 4y ago
That too. Corrected ;) (I'm multitasking and on phone; pardon my terseness)

dymk 4y ago

Awaiting the lawsuit against him because of the obvious constructive dismissal going on

gruez 4y ago
On what grounds? Most of US is at will employment, so the worst that he's subject to is something like california's WARN act which requires 60 days notice. However, AFAIK the employees are still receiving a paycheck, just that they have nothing to do and are locked out of the company's systems.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  I just want to say that this attitude towards employment will likely be part of the eventual downfall of the USA. The reason ? It's too risky to tell your boss the truth so when things are going bad so it's easier just not to say anything, I noticed my American colleagues will often not say anything to "the grand leader", they will maybe even encourage stupidity. Where as when I worked in Europe, that doesn't happen. Not claiming those places are super powers, but I think this "shoot from the hip" American attitude towards staff will be it's undoing.
  - missingcolours 4y ago
    Nah. Everywhere I've ever worked, you can tell any boss things they don't want to hear. What you have to do is do it respectfully. I've told directors and VPs multiple levels up from me that I thought they were wrong about something in large meetings. I said it to their face and respectfully, and that was fine. As long as you understand your place and don't publicly trash your boss, there's normally no problem. The tweet in question here was... not that.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      Was his original tweet actually disrespectful? His CEO is openly ridiculing his own company's engineering teams, and he simply said that what Musk said was wrong. The second tweet had some more sass to it to match the tweet he was responding to, but it also wasn't all that bad. He points out the above in that Musk should be bringing these things up internally rather than publicly belittling his own employees with what appears to be incorrect information.
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      It's not about that, it's that you have to think and put a lot of mental energy into "being respectful" rather than just being straight forwards and direct. You have to wait for the right time etc. Giving feedback has higher risk and cost to it than it would otherwise be so why even do it? While I'm not claiming it's an immediate crisis, I think it is and will continue to become a net long term loss for corporate American culture. Musk is now teaching the world you can just fire people for saying anything you don't like without even a phone call, it will only make people more apprehensive to talk more freely.
      - mathlover2 4y ago
        I think more than anything else Musk is teaching people to never apply to any company he owns under any circumstances. This isn't going to be treated as a role model for managers. It's going to be a model of exactly what not to do as a CEO, not just on HR issues, but everything else. I seriously don't see Twitter ever being able to hire a worker of any significant skill level ever again.
- dymk 4y ago
  That’s not how constructive dismissal works. If your company decides they want to soft-layoff, they can’t just make it miserable and hope people quit. They’ll be sued, and courts will find the departures equivalent to a layoff if enough people leave.

atdrummond 4y ago

I suppose Elon misunderstood what “build in public” meant.

bmitc 4y ago
And free speech and everything else he touts. Yet again, it's an example of: don't tell Musk he is wrong, especially in public. Musk has also, presumably, removed the conversation shown here from Twitter: https://twitter.com/ichdertom/status/1592217628214722560/photo/1 https://twitter.com/ichdertom/status/1592217628214722560/pho...
- kevinmchugh 4y ago
  What's the order of events here? Between "I can say this is wrong", this "what have you done?" exchange, and "he's fired"?
  - bmitc 4y ago
    I get the feeling it is in the order that you listed. The in between discussion doesn’t seem to show on Twitter unless one has the direct link.
threatofrain 4y ago
It's a shame because Elon was certainly enjoying the prerogative to shit on that team's work.

CoastalCoder 4y ago

TBH I was already pretty against working under Musk because of his previous speech and behavior. I think this was basically another instance of the same. It certainly cements my views.

hintymad 4y ago

Here might be another reason for not working for Musk: he asked an executive of his, Jerome Guillen, to "forfeit some unvested equity" because he thought that "some employees were making more from Tesla than he thought their contributions merited", per WSJ. I assume that Guillen was going to get the unvested equity if Musk didn't ask, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue at all.