3 ms·

At the risk of being overly controversial, what would have been a better option given the times. Lynching black people was not uncommon back then for context of

by _8j50 4y ago

At the risk of being overly controversial, what would have been a better option given the times. Lynching black people was not uncommon back then for context of how minorities were treated. Of course taking away someomes property when they have done no wrong is wrong. Or the internment camps. They did bad things because it was war. Do you remember how muslim americans were treated and attacked after 9\11? The animosity of the majority of americans towards them? The point I am making is even now this is how people react but back then modern concepts of human rights and justice were not prevalent. The war effort then was not like any war effort afterwards. It requires mobilizing the civilian society "lose lips sink ships" for example was a big motto because a lot of people see stuff and if they repeat it, it can make it to the enemy. Combine that with the fact that the japanese emperror was regarded as a god by the japanese, you can see how much paranoia war time president and generals would have about anyone japanese related. I am not saying what they did was in any way justified but rather if I was in their shoes I would also be susceptible to committing such atrocities. Really, what I am trying to say is how easy it is to do what america did to the Japanese americans then and how we should not be so quick to pass judgement. Their motivation was fear and paranoia in the time of war not hatred like with Germany's camps. Judging people of the past is easy but learning from history is hard. The lesson I learned from this is you have to be strong (whatever that means) and resist attempts by the government to do these things in the future as well as educate people on history like this. It may not happen to japanese people but it can happen again. If there is war with China and they start sabotaging, extorting and bombing americans are you sure chinese americans won't be mistreated again? All it takes is 51% of people to agree in a time of war (fear of death and cruelty).

giraffe_lady 4y ago
I have to point out that these actions were condemned contemporaneously as well. Even in their own time, by others living through those times, this was considered an atrocity. Standards of socially acceptable harm to minorities may have been different then, but we also know that this was easily recognized as unjust at the time, by the fact that so many people at the time did condemn it as unjust.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Yes but those people were a minority. People condemned genocide against native americans and slavery of africans in their time as well but a democracy means the people consented to the atrocity by plurality. Humans do evil stuff, it is in our nature, even now to think otherwise would only lead to more atrocity we must learn and work hard to resist the evil in our very nature and be strong to resist other evil people, that was the essence of my comment.
pempem 4y ago
'Back then' is a tricky thing. In fact, ways of acting in war, treating prisoners, and even treating citizens have been around since before Hammurabi. The rule of law (everyone equal in the eyes of the law) has been footballed around a variety of early civilizations and rulers. WWI and II were unique in the number of countries involved and the cascading effects. The goal is to not do this anymore and we keep restating the goal as a species but keep failing.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Well see, you are right on the first paragraph but in this context we are talking about America in the 40s specifically. I am not saying people in the past had bad morals and we are better, I am saying in that specific time things were a certain way, they were better and worse in many ways before and after. A good example I use is back in the old west when a sheriff or marshall shot someone in the back he would be hanged but these days cops shoot people in the back and get away with it most of the time. > The goal is to not do this anymore and we keep restating the goal as a species but keep failing. That's sort of my point. The reason we keep failing is because we are evil by nature and we must learn to do good. I was pointing out how people look at the topic if this thread and speak as if they are morally superior or wouldn't do the same thing in those times. Most of Germany supported hitler and many were complicit in the holocaust. Our failure is not as a species or a group but as individuals. Collective thinking guiding morality is exactly how these terrible things happened, because "everyone is going along with it, how can I resist or do different". You can see on social media how "canceling" people is the norm for example, collective thinking amplified, people hating and attacking others because the mob says so, not calling out their friends and peers to aboid being alienated. It isn't that we are better than americans in the 40s but that we are better off in that wr have better education and access to media as well as a great economy and more powerful military (no worries about China or Russia actually invading us now, remember, back then there was no nuclear detterence either). I just feel like it is more important to understand and learn why we (not they) are capable of doing horrible things.

by _8j50 4y ago

giraffe_lady 4y ago

I have to point out that these actions were condemned contemporaneously as well. Even in their own time, by others living through those times, this was considered an atrocity. Standards of socially acceptable harm to minorities may have been different then, but we also know that this was easily recognized as unjust at the time, by the fact that so many people at the time did condemn it as unjust.

_8j50 4y ago
Yes but those people were a minority. People condemned genocide against native americans and slavery of africans in their time as well but a democracy means the people consented to the atrocity by plurality. Humans do evil stuff, it is in our nature, even now to think otherwise would only lead to more atrocity we must learn and work hard to resist the evil in our very nature and be strong to resist other evil people, that was the essence of my comment.

pempem 4y ago

'Back then' is a tricky thing. In fact, ways of acting in war, treating prisoners, and even treating citizens have been around since before Hammurabi. The rule of law (everyone equal in the eyes of the law) has been footballed around a variety of early civilizations and rulers. WWI and II were unique in the number of countries involved and the cascading effects. The goal is to not do this anymore and we keep restating the goal as a species but keep failing.

_8j50 4y ago
Well see, you are right on the first paragraph but in this context we are talking about America in the 40s specifically. I am not saying people in the past had bad morals and we are better, I am saying in that specific time things were a certain way, they were better and worse in many ways before and after. A good example I use is back in the old west when a sheriff or marshall shot someone in the back he would be hanged but these days cops shoot people in the back and get away with it most of the time. > The goal is to not do this anymore and we keep restating the goal as a species but keep failing. That's sort of my point. The reason we keep failing is because we are evil by nature and we must learn to do good. I was pointing out how people look at the topic if this thread and speak as if they are morally superior or wouldn't do the same thing in those times. Most of Germany supported hitler and many were complicit in the holocaust. Our failure is not as a species or a group but as individuals. Collective thinking guiding morality is exactly how these terrible things happened, because "everyone is going along with it, how can I resist or do different". You can see on social media how "canceling" people is the norm for example, collective thinking amplified, people hating and attacking others because the mob says so, not calling out their friends and peers to aboid being alienated. It isn't that we are better than americans in the 40s but that we are better off in that wr have better education and access to media as well as a great economy and more powerful military (no worries about China or Russia actually invading us now, remember, back then there was no nuclear detterence either). I just feel like it is more important to understand and learn why we (not they) are capable of doing horrible things.