4 ms·

It’s not cronyism - it’s people knowing your portfolio of work and abilities. And at the end of the day - do whatever you need to within reason to put food on

It’s not cronyism - it’s people knowing your portfolio of work and abilities. And at the end of the day - do whatever you need to within reason to put food on your own table. Don’t worry about someone else judging you for cronyism for feeding your family.

anon50118810 4y ago
There's nothing wrong with networking, but if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that. In particular let's make sure people who don't have that network and who do have to job search know what they need to do to get where they need to be.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that I think we already were? That's exactly what I said. Who do you think isn't being honest?
  - anon50118810 4y ago
    No one's lying but one of the grandparent comments said that they would change careers if they needed to send out 100 applications for a job search. If 100 applications is necessary for even a good developer without a strong network, that's a misleading recommendation.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I expect it varies enormously. I can readily believe that people with relatively straightforward in-demand skills, an easy to follow track record, and maybe the right schools can probably (in a reasonable economy) just turn on LinkedIn and let interview requests flow in. Someone who doesn't really check boxes and doesn't have a network may have to play a numbers game. On the other hand, more senior and more specialized people (both in and out of engineering) will often have a much smaller number of holes that they would fit properly in and just sending out resumes is unlikely to be nearly as effective as networking.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Yeah you’re also disadvantaged as a senior when you apply by a form - people will obviously think ‘why is this FAANG-level person applying blindly like that’ and think it’s off and discard your application.
    - anon50118810 4y ago
      This is an odd take given that the majority of remote software developer jobs I've found, with form applications, are specifically listed at the senior level or higher. Maybe you're suggesting it's something like Groucho Marx's quote "I wouldn't belong to a club that would take me as a member."
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        I think a FAANG-level developer would probably email a team they’re interested in working with.
        anon50118810 4y ago
        Is that how it works? Imagine your typical 51-200 person company with your, I don't know, mobile, backend, product teams, whatever you call them. Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? If someone reached out to me and I redirected them to the careers page, would I be committing some kind of faux pas? I'm joking but only a little, I really don't know how those circles operate.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? Err yeah kind of. I always recommend people find someone in the team they want to join and reach out to them personally or via a mutual. If you fill in the form without someone on the other end waiting to pick your application out of the firehouse it can get lost in the HR mystery machine. I think that’s a pretty common opinion? I’ve never gotten a job with a blind application. I’ve gotten every job I applied to when I did it by reaching out.
giantg2 4y ago
I didn't call it cronyism. I asked what cronyism would be called if the qualifications were met. The point is that giving preference to someone you know reduces or even eliminates the other person's opportunity. This is especially important for minority groups that may not have as many connections in a given industry. Sure, people do what they need to for work, but people skipping in line...
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > but people skipping in line... But picking someone to join your team isn’t taking the first person who appears in line.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    No, but it is timeboxed and it's supposed to be taking the best candidate. Even internally at my company, you have people being selected for positions before the position is even posted. So yeah, you have someone skipping the process while you're standing in line for something that isn't even available.

anon50118810 4y ago

There's nothing wrong with networking, but if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that. In particular let's make sure people who don't have that network and who do have to job search know what they need to do to get where they need to be.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that I think we already were? That's exactly what I said. Who do you think isn't being honest?
- anon50118810 4y ago
  No one's lying but one of the grandparent comments said that they would change careers if they needed to send out 100 applications for a job search. If 100 applications is necessary for even a good developer without a strong network, that's a misleading recommendation.
ghaff 4y ago
I expect it varies enormously. I can readily believe that people with relatively straightforward in-demand skills, an easy to follow track record, and maybe the right schools can probably (in a reasonable economy) just turn on LinkedIn and let interview requests flow in. Someone who doesn't really check boxes and doesn't have a network may have to play a numbers game. On the other hand, more senior and more specialized people (both in and out of engineering) will often have a much smaller number of holes that they would fit properly in and just sending out resumes is unlikely to be nearly as effective as networking.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Yeah you’re also disadvantaged as a senior when you apply by a form - people will obviously think ‘why is this FAANG-level person applying blindly like that’ and think it’s off and discard your application.
  - anon50118810 4y ago
    This is an odd take given that the majority of remote software developer jobs I've found, with form applications, are specifically listed at the senior level or higher. Maybe you're suggesting it's something like Groucho Marx's quote "I wouldn't belong to a club that would take me as a member."
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      I think a FAANG-level developer would probably email a team they’re interested in working with.
      - anon50118810 4y ago
        Is that how it works? Imagine your typical 51-200 person company with your, I don't know, mobile, backend, product teams, whatever you call them. Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? If someone reached out to me and I redirected them to the careers page, would I be committing some kind of faux pas? I'm joking but only a little, I really don't know how those circles operate.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Is there some unspoken rule you pick up at FAANG or the Ivy League that the front door is for the unwashed and people in the know use back channels to get an invitation? Err yeah kind of. I always recommend people find someone in the team they want to join and reach out to them personally or via a mutual. If you fill in the form without someone on the other end waiting to pick your application out of the firehouse it can get lost in the HR mystery machine. I think that’s a pretty common opinion? I’ve never gotten a job with a blind application. I’ve gotten every job I applied to when I did it by reaching out.

giantg2 4y ago

I didn't call it cronyism. I asked what cronyism would be called if the qualifications were met. The point is that giving preference to someone you know reduces or even eliminates the other person's opportunity. This is especially important for minority groups that may not have as many connections in a given industry. Sure, people do what they need to for work, but people skipping in line...

chrisseaton 4y ago
> but people skipping in line... But picking someone to join your team isn’t taking the first person who appears in line.
- giantg2 4y ago
  No, but it is timeboxed and it's supposed to be taking the best candidate. Even internally at my company, you have people being selected for positions before the position is even posted. So yeah, you have someone skipping the process while you're standing in line for something that isn't even available.