3 ms·

There's a lot of daylight between "recommendations for some higher age groups, no recommendation for lower age groups" and "recommendation against for lower age

There's a lot of daylight between "recommendations for some higher age groups, no recommendation for lower age groups" and "recommendation against for lower age groups." The international recommendations cited above seem to be in the former category. Florida's recommendations seem to be in the latter. This might make them an outlier. Whether it makes them conspiracy theorists is another matter. If their position is sound, well, sound positions can be embraced for sound or unsound reasons. If their position is unsound, of course it will be for unsound reasons. So whether they're called conspiracy theorists matters much less than their reasons. What are their reasons? They appear to cite a large relative increase in myocarditis risk in younger men. A statistically literate response would involve asking what the absolute increase is... and the proper place to reckon with relative comparison would be vs the unvaccinated infected: https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-poses-higher-risk-for-myocarditis-than-vaccines https://www.heart.org/en/news/2022/08/22/covid-19-infection-... I would absolutely recommend anyone wondering about a specific vaccination consult with a doctor or two (I do this and have had a certain class of vaccines contraindicated). But no red flags from medical pros on this one for me, and personally, even as a man outside the high-risk age groups, I can't remotely see a reason for assuming myocarditis would be a reason for avoiding the vaccine. As far as I can tell, it's almost on the order of your lifetime chance of being struck by lightning, and the chance of developing myocarditis from infection is significantly higher.

adolph 4y ago
Is someone a conspiracy theorist if they conjecture about conspiracies or because they conspire with others to promote a theory?
- boppo1 4y ago
  The former. The latter would be a theory conspiracist.
- tanseydavid 4y ago
  The term Conspiracy Theorist is a slur and a pejorative in the vast majority of cases where it is applied. Conjecturing about whether or not a particular situation might be explained by a conspiracy does NOT make one into a Conspiracy Theorist. The term Conspiracy Theorist would accurately describe someone who makes a living at it -- like Alex Jones or David Icke.
  - 90d 4y ago
    I don't think either of them are allowed to make a living
francisduvivier 4y ago
Have you read this exception in the link you posted: - "with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis followingvaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S." I'd say it's worth a mention. But then it's also quite an unfair comparison if you compare the all the vaccinated against a filtered group of unvaccinated people.
- wwweston 4y ago
  I read that passage as "men who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a very modest increased risk of myocarditis over those who both did not receive such a dose and remain (apparently) uninfected" -- eg, it's possible that specific intervention slightly increases absolute risk of myocarditis vs whatever group can avoid both vaccination and infection indefinitely (a group I suspect is not large). It's also possible I'm not reading it correctly, but I'm not sure how else to square it with the observation that men have higher baseline and post-covid-infection myocarditis risks generally (and covid patients have something like 10-20x elevated risks of myocarditis).
  - tekknik 4y ago
    How do you square this with chest pains after injections, either first or second dose? Say you’re also in the <40 age bracket.
  - francisduvivier 4y ago
    So the full passage below. Seems quite unambiguous to me that for the second moderna shot,the risk is higher than for unvaccinated Covid infection. I also wonder how to square it with the rest of their claimsc Seems that you can't take any publication headline of any instance on any side of the argument on face value when stuff gets politicized like this. "But the risk of myocarditis associated with the vaccine was lower than the risk associated with COVID-19 infection before or after vaccination – with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis following vaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S."

adolph 4y ago

Is someone a conspiracy theorist if they conjecture about conspiracies or because they conspire with others to promote a theory?

boppo1 4y ago
The former. The latter would be a theory conspiracist.
tanseydavid 4y ago
The term Conspiracy Theorist is a slur and a pejorative in the vast majority of cases where it is applied. Conjecturing about whether or not a particular situation might be explained by a conspiracy does NOT make one into a Conspiracy Theorist. The term Conspiracy Theorist would accurately describe someone who makes a living at it -- like Alex Jones or David Icke.
- 90d 4y ago
  I don't think either of them are allowed to make a living

francisduvivier 4y ago

Have you read this exception in the link you posted: - "with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis followingvaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S." I'd say it's worth a mention. But then it's also quite an unfair comparison if you compare the all the vaccinated against a filtered group of unvaccinated people.

wwweston 4y ago
I read that passage as "men who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a very modest increased risk of myocarditis over those who both did not receive such a dose and remain (apparently) uninfected" -- eg, it's possible that specific intervention slightly increases absolute risk of myocarditis vs whatever group can avoid both vaccination and infection indefinitely (a group I suspect is not large). It's also possible I'm not reading it correctly, but I'm not sure how else to square it with the observation that men have higher baseline and post-covid-infection myocarditis risks generally (and covid patients have something like 10-20x elevated risks of myocarditis).
- tekknik 4y ago
  How do you square this with chest pains after injections, either first or second dose? Say you’re also in the <40 age bracket.
- francisduvivier 4y ago
  So the full passage below. Seems quite unambiguous to me that for the second moderna shot,the risk is higher than for unvaccinated Covid infection. I also wonder how to square it with the rest of their claimsc Seems that you can't take any publication headline of any instance on any side of the argument on face value when stuff gets politicized like this. "But the risk of myocarditis associated with the vaccine was lower than the risk associated with COVID-19 infection before or after vaccination – with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis following vaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S."