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I'm in the UK and have: - previously passed a loop with FAANG ( didn't join tho ) - have a strong portfolio in a hard to resource niche Easily send out 200 a

I'm in the UK and have: - previously passed a loop with FAANG ( didn't join tho ) - have a strong portfolio in a hard to resource niche Easily send out 200 apps and get ignored. The market is dumb, not sure I should quit over it tho

chrisseaton 4y ago
If you’re a FAANG level developer (very top of your field) then surely you’ve got a network of people you can ask for a job anytime rather than having to apply as normal? I’m not even remotely FAANG level but if I wanted a job I’d email some people I know or Tweet that I’m looking - not fill in a form. Have you tried working your network? Emailing some friends?
- giantg2 4y ago
  I hate that there's so much talk about networks. There's a ton of talk about anti-discrimination, equity/equality, etc in other areas of HN. What's the word for cronyism if the person is qualified?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    It’s not cronyism - it’s people knowing your portfolio of work and abilities. And at the end of the day - do whatever you need to within reason to put food on your own table. Don’t worry about someone else judging you for cronyism for feeding your family.
    - anon50118810 4y ago
      There's nothing wrong with networking, but if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that. In particular let's make sure people who don't have that network and who do have to job search know what they need to do to get where they need to be.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that I think we already were? That's exactly what I said. Who do you think isn't being honest?
        anon50118810 4y ago
        No one's lying but one of the grandparent comments said that they would change careers if they needed to send out 100 applications for a job search. If 100 applications is necessary for even a good developer without a strong network, that's a misleading recommendation.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I expect it varies enormously. I can readily believe that people with relatively straightforward in-demand skills, an easy to follow track record, and maybe the right schools can probably (in a reasonable economy) just turn on LinkedIn and let interview requests flow in. Someone who doesn't really check boxes and doesn't have a network may have to play a numbers game. On the other hand, more senior and more specialized people (both in and out of engineering) will often have a much smaller number of holes that they would fit properly in and just sending out resumes is unlikely to be nearly as effective as networking.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        Yeah you’re also disadvantaged as a senior when you apply by a form - people will obviously think ‘why is this FAANG-level person applying blindly like that’ and think it’s off and discard your application.
        anon50118810 4y ago
        This is an odd take given that the majority of remote software developer jobs I've found, with form applications, are specifically listed at the senior level or higher. Maybe you're suggesting it's something like Groucho Marx's quote "I wouldn't belong to a club that would take me as a member."
    - giantg2 4y ago
      I didn't call it cronyism. I asked what cronyism would be called if the qualifications were met. The point is that giving preference to someone you know reduces or even eliminates the other person's opportunity. This is especially important for minority groups that may not have as many connections in a given industry. Sure, people do what they need to for work, but people skipping in line...
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > but people skipping in line... But picking someone to join your team isn’t taking the first person who appears in line.
        giantg2 4y ago
        No, but it is timeboxed and it's supposed to be taking the best candidate. Even internally at my company, you have people being selected for positions before the position is even posted. So yeah, you have someone skipping the process while you're standing in line for something that isn't even available.
- ownagefool 4y ago
  Err this is obviously a bit of a thread now, but the point of my post wasn't asking for help, but rather pointing out that frustrations with the market, and the front door, as it were, are universal. In the UK the market is pretty dumb. Folks are mainly looking for reasons to exclude you rather than focusing on the positives. Ergo, I fire and forget resumes and only really put effort into the ones that come back positively. When I get past the gate keepers, I almost always get an offer. So my point is, "hang in there".

chrisseaton 4y ago

If you’re a FAANG level developer (very top of your field) then surely you’ve got a network of people you can ask for a job anytime rather than having to apply as normal? I’m not even remotely FAANG level but if I wanted a job I’d email some people I know or Tweet that I’m looking - not fill in a form. Have you tried working your network? Emailing some friends?

giantg2 4y ago
I hate that there's so much talk about networks. There's a ton of talk about anti-discrimination, equity/equality, etc in other areas of HN. What's the word for cronyism if the person is qualified?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  It’s not cronyism - it’s people knowing your portfolio of work and abilities. And at the end of the day - do whatever you need to within reason to put food on your own table. Don’t worry about someone else judging you for cronyism for feeding your family.
  - anon50118810 4y ago
    There's nothing wrong with networking, but if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that. In particular let's make sure people who don't have that network and who do have to job search know what they need to do to get where they need to be.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > if we're all agreeing that networking is important to having a job search that doesn't involve hundreds of applications, then let's just be honest about that I think we already were? That's exactly what I said. Who do you think isn't being honest?
      - anon50118810 4y ago
        No one's lying but one of the grandparent comments said that they would change careers if they needed to send out 100 applications for a job search. If 100 applications is necessary for even a good developer without a strong network, that's a misleading recommendation.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I expect it varies enormously. I can readily believe that people with relatively straightforward in-demand skills, an easy to follow track record, and maybe the right schools can probably (in a reasonable economy) just turn on LinkedIn and let interview requests flow in. Someone who doesn't really check boxes and doesn't have a network may have to play a numbers game. On the other hand, more senior and more specialized people (both in and out of engineering) will often have a much smaller number of holes that they would fit properly in and just sending out resumes is unlikely to be nearly as effective as networking.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        Yeah you’re also disadvantaged as a senior when you apply by a form - people will obviously think ‘why is this FAANG-level person applying blindly like that’ and think it’s off and discard your application.
        anon50118810 4y ago
        This is an odd take given that the majority of remote software developer jobs I've found, with form applications, are specifically listed at the senior level or higher. Maybe you're suggesting it's something like Groucho Marx's quote "I wouldn't belong to a club that would take me as a member."
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I didn't call it cronyism. I asked what cronyism would be called if the qualifications were met. The point is that giving preference to someone you know reduces or even eliminates the other person's opportunity. This is especially important for minority groups that may not have as many connections in a given industry. Sure, people do what they need to for work, but people skipping in line...
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > but people skipping in line... But picking someone to join your team isn’t taking the first person who appears in line.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        No, but it is timeboxed and it's supposed to be taking the best candidate. Even internally at my company, you have people being selected for positions before the position is even posted. So yeah, you have someone skipping the process while you're standing in line for something that isn't even available.
ownagefool 4y ago
Err this is obviously a bit of a thread now, but the point of my post wasn't asking for help, but rather pointing out that frustrations with the market, and the front door, as it were, are universal. In the UK the market is pretty dumb. Folks are mainly looking for reasons to exclude you rather than focusing on the positives. Ergo, I fire and forget resumes and only really put effort into the ones that come back positively. When I get past the gate keepers, I almost always get an offer. So my point is, "hang in there".