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I think that all this COVID stuff was everything opposite than using science, starting from the people, including government, taking of "trusting science". Sci

I think that all this COVID stuff was everything opposite than using science, starting from the people, including government, taking of "trusting science". Science is not a religion, and we don't have to believe in it. Instead we need to be critic, conduct experiments, evaluate our thesis, put everything into discussion. Something we didn't, because you are a fool if you have doubts about vaccines, if you talk about negative effects, they are 100% safe and you are an ignorant. This is the contrary of doing science. We didn't studied these vaccines enough, we didn't take for serious people lamenting adverse reactions, we did hide the news about that because we feared people not taking the vaccine. Is this science? It's not. If you look at the news, vaccines are 100% safe and doesn't have any side effect. You ask people that got that, you get another opinion. Me too after the third dose (that I wouldn't had got if I wasn't forced to do so by our "democratic" government, no wonder here in Italy last elections won the "fascists", if these are the democratic people) I had serious side effects, I was basically not feeling well for a week. To take into prospective, when I got COVID in March 2020 when it was still a new thing I only got a slight fever for two days, nothing compared of the effect of the vaccine itself...

TurkishPoptart 4y ago
Correct, political science displaced science so quickly. Dark days are ahead unless the public is informed and able to resist. How did they force you to take a booster? Was it in order to keep your job?
leetrout 4y ago
> I had serious side effects, I was basically not feeling well for a week Would you care to elaborate? I had really bad brain fog.
- nomel 4y ago
  Not him, but I had arm pain for over a year, under the injection, along with extreme weakness in a particular muscle/motion, from the first shot. I couldn’t sleep on that side at all, and could barely sleep on the other. It eventually went away, but I was terrified it was permanent. I did not get the boosters. I’ve had people say I’m anti-vax, from this.
  - leetrout 4y ago
    That sucks! Glad it went away. Did you find out the root cause? Did they hit a nerve directly?
megous 4y ago
Also classification of seriousness of side effects was kinda skewed, too. If you didn't read into details of studies, you'd think that claims like "serious side effects are rare", as something that is a meaningful input to your decisionmaking about getting vaccinated. But if it was defined as conditions requiring hospitalizations or urgent care, then there are other very comon side effects that don't require it and can still upend your life if they last long time. Being unable to work properly for longish time (say months to a year), without needing hospitalization is quite serious to anyone in working age. There was no way to judge how long particular side effects can last (and likelihoods) from vaccine studies, because data for judging this were not published, despite for sure being available from the original trials to the researchers. There's apparently a lot of research about how to push people to vaccinate and about vaccination hessitancy, though. :) But providing some useful data about side effects, like how likely they'll last 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months for a vaccination that was intended to quickly give to almost everyone... No, can't have that. That was almost impossible to find. And if you did find something, it was some independent research with small sample size.
andrewflnr 4y ago
Masses of people are, to all appearance anyway, incapable of understanding anything even as slightly nuanced as "vaccines are probably a worthwhile risk compared to COVID as we understand it today". It gets flattened to one of "vaccines are 100% safe, you must take them" or "vaccines are evil, you must not take them". I really hope that's only an appearance, that we can learn to do better, because otherwise civilization is walking dead.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  And if the truth was actually "vaccines are probably not a worthwhile risk for a young adult without comorbidities?" Would that change your analysis? Or did you just feel the need to prove your COVID orthodoxy?
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    You mean my orthodox position of "the pro-vax side is also dumb"?

TurkishPoptart 4y ago

Correct, political science displaced science so quickly. Dark days are ahead unless the public is informed and able to resist. How did they force you to take a booster? Was it in order to keep your job?

leetrout 4y ago

> I had serious side effects, I was basically not feeling well for a week Would you care to elaborate? I had really bad brain fog.

nomel 4y ago
Not him, but I had arm pain for over a year, under the injection, along with extreme weakness in a particular muscle/motion, from the first shot. I couldn’t sleep on that side at all, and could barely sleep on the other. It eventually went away, but I was terrified it was permanent. I did not get the boosters. I’ve had people say I’m anti-vax, from this.
- leetrout 4y ago
  That sucks! Glad it went away. Did you find out the root cause? Did they hit a nerve directly?

megous 4y ago

Also classification of seriousness of side effects was kinda skewed, too. If you didn't read into details of studies, you'd think that claims like "serious side effects are rare", as something that is a meaningful input to your decisionmaking about getting vaccinated. But if it was defined as conditions requiring hospitalizations or urgent care, then there are other very comon side effects that don't require it and can still upend your life if they last long time. Being unable to work properly for longish time (say months to a year), without needing hospitalization is quite serious to anyone in working age. There was no way to judge how long particular side effects can last (and likelihoods) from vaccine studies, because data for judging this were not published, despite for sure being available from the original trials to the researchers. There's apparently a lot of research about how to push people to vaccinate and about vaccination hessitancy, though. :) But providing some useful data about side effects, like how likely they'll last 2 weeks, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months for a vaccination that was intended to quickly give to almost everyone... No, can't have that. That was almost impossible to find. And if you did find something, it was some independent research with small sample size.

andrewflnr 4y ago

Masses of people are, to all appearance anyway, incapable of understanding anything even as slightly nuanced as "vaccines are probably a worthwhile risk compared to COVID as we understand it today". It gets flattened to one of "vaccines are 100% safe, you must take them" or "vaccines are evil, you must not take them". I really hope that's only an appearance, that we can learn to do better, because otherwise civilization is walking dead.

puffoflogic 4y ago
And if the truth was actually "vaccines are probably not a worthwhile risk for a young adult without comorbidities?" Would that change your analysis? Or did you just feel the need to prove your COVID orthodoxy?
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  You mean my orthodox position of "the pro-vax side is also dumb"?