4 ms·

> Then we have to account for the much reduced risk of that though I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". We know before vaccinations existed some

> Then we have to account for the much reduced risk of that though I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". We know before vaccinations existed some people died, some people were a-symptomatic. After mass vaccination campaigns, same results. Have the deaths gone down? Sure, but there are obvious factors, outside of vaccination, that are certainly contributing to that, if not wholly responsible for it. We know the virus has been getting less deadly with each new strain, we know that putting people on ventilators and cranking them up was 100% the wrong treatment. The media has largely stopped beating the fear drum, there are no more death counters up on the news stations 24/7 so people aren't freaking-the-fuck-out. I highly suspect you could have given out placebos instead and would have seen the same results.

enragedcacti 4y ago
> I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range of 5-16x depending on age group and vaccinated or vaccinated+boosted. There are obviously confounding variables (do vaccinated people behave differently? are healthier people the ones getting the vaccines?) but I would argue that those numbers are a pretty big W for vaccines as far as risk reduction goes. And of course that is just deaths. You could certainly look at numbers for severity of infection or long-covid outcomes to further measure the efficacy of the vaccines. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-co...
- hitpointdrew 4y ago
  >If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range 5-16x I am not questioning that, but couldn't that 5-16x be contributed to the latest strains being far less deadly that the first few strains, much better and accessible treatments (monoclonal antibodies), safer hospital practices (not putting people on ventilators so quickly/easily), etc.? How can we be so sure that the majority of that 5-16x was from vaccination?
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    Because that rate of reduction is in comparison to the "control" group of unvaccinated people who are exposed to the same strains and have access to all the same treatments and hospital practices

enragedcacti 4y ago

> I fail to see any evidence of "much reduced risk". If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range of 5-16x depending on age group and vaccinated or vaccinated+boosted. There are obviously confounding variables (do vaccinated people behave differently? are healthier people the ones getting the vaccines?) but I would argue that those numbers are a pretty big W for vaccines as far as risk reduction goes. And of course that is just deaths. You could certainly look at numbers for severity of infection or long-covid outcomes to further measure the efficacy of the vaccines. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-co...

hitpointdrew 4y ago
>If you just do a basic per-capita analysis the reduced risk of death is in the range 5-16x I am not questioning that, but couldn't that 5-16x be contributed to the latest strains being far less deadly that the first few strains, much better and accessible treatments (monoclonal antibodies), safer hospital practices (not putting people on ventilators so quickly/easily), etc.? How can we be so sure that the majority of that 5-16x was from vaccination?
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  Because that rate of reduction is in comparison to the "control" group of unvaccinated people who are exposed to the same strains and have access to all the same treatments and hospital practices