4 ms·

You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?!

stronglikedan 4y ago
- hnrodey 4y ago
  - TechBro8615 4y ago
    OP didn't say they're giving their child another booster.
    - hnrodey 4y ago
      It was abuse at the first attempt.
RONROC 4y ago
oezi 4y ago
The risk from myocarditis from getting Covid-19 is higher than getting it from the vaccine. The decision to vaccinate even young people made sense during the height of the pandemic and it doesn't make so much sense now anymore.
- cerradokids 4y ago
  Where did you get that data? According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vaccination.
  - elsonrodriguez 4y ago
    Of note is that this study is based on PCR tests. We would need a blood tests for more accuracy to ensure no historical infection took place. This also doesn't compare vaccinated infected vs unvaccinated infections. It's a decent data point but not conclusive.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0) > We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection. and they include a brief literature review: > Our findings are consistent with those from a case-control study of 884,828 persons receiving the BNT162b2 vaccine in Israel21. That study observed an association with myocarditis in the 42 days following vaccination (risk ratio of 3.24), but no association with pericarditis or cardiac arrhythmia. Two further studies from Israel add to our observations by providing clinical review to ensure robust case ascertainment22 and reporting investigations and outcomes in individual patients with myocarditis following the BNT162b2 vaccine23. Witberg et al.21,22 observed a small excess in events 3–5 days following the second dose of BNT162b2 vaccine, but most were mild presentations and just one classified as fulminant22. Mevorach et al. observed an incidence ratio of 5.34 for myocarditis in 5,442,696 persons following BNT162b2, although this was attenuated when restricted to the 136 definite and probable cases of myocarditis23. Risk of myocarditis was restricted to males under the age of 40 years and only observed following the second dose. Similarly, two studies from the United States have reported an incident rate ratio of 2.7 for myocarditis in the 10 days following the second dose of both mRNA vaccines24 and an estimated 6.3 and 10.1 extra cases per million doses in the 1- to 21-day period following the first and second dose of both mRNA vaccines, respectively, in those younger than 40 years25. And conclude: > In summary, this population-based study quantifies for the first time the risk of several rare cardiac adverse events associated with three COVID-19 vaccines as well as SARS-CoV-2 infection. Vaccination for SARS-CoV-2 in adults was associated with a small increase in the risk of myocarditis within a week of receiving the first dose of both adenovirus and mRNA vaccines, and after the second dose of both mRNA vaccines. By contrast, SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with a substantial increase in the risk of hospitalization or death from myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia.
robomartin 4y ago
> You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?! I am being as honest as I can be with regards to our feelings on this. I can't say we are angry about that incident at all. I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot. Frankly, I don't even remember if the data was available (I do think it was, BTW). Remember, at the time, only about 700 cases. Of course, the outcome might have had something to do with the lack of negative emotions. I can probably admit our position today would be massively different had we had to face a range of negative outcomes post-hospitalization. These can range from life-long afflictions to death.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Shocka1 4y ago
  I'm happy for you that you aren't mad, as there is no reason to wear the burden of anger in your life. At a young age I had pericarditis (idiopathic), which developed into both myocarditis and pericarditis. I've now had pericarditis off and on for over 10 years now and hope that it never comes back for your child. "I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot." You pretty much hit the nail on the head here and is my biggest gripe about this whole fiasco. I'm not sure about your situation now, but if this disease recurs and you feel like your kid's heart doctor has no idea what they are talking about, I recommend either Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic. I don't have Facebook, but I've been told there are many support groups for this disease as well there. Good luck to you, and my prayers go out to you and your family.
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
"No upside" is not accurate. Hospitalizations from COVID are quite rare in 15 year olds, but not remotely as rare as these cases of myocarditis.
- incrudible 4y ago
  What data do you base this on? According to QCovid.org, a 19yo old white male had annualized odds of hospitalization of less than 1 in 10,000 given the prevalence of the third and second COVID waves in the UK. That is less than the incidence of Myocarditis from the vaccine in that age group.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wellthatsawrap1 4y ago

stronglikedan 4y ago

hnrodey 4y ago
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  OP didn't say they're giving their child another booster.
  - hnrodey 4y ago
    It was abuse at the first attempt.

RONROC 4y ago

oezi 4y ago

The risk from myocarditis from getting Covid-19 is higher than getting it from the vaccine. The decision to vaccinate even young people made sense during the height of the pandemic and it doesn't make so much sense now anymore.

cerradokids 4y ago
Where did you get that data? According to this study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/ there is no increase in Myocarditis cases among unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid-19. This study tracked 196,992 people which is a huge number, so the data here is quite good and clear. Contracting Covid-19 does not put you at increased risk for Myocarditis, the same cannot be said when evaluating a population that simply received the vaccination.
- elsonrodriguez 4y ago
  Of note is that this study is based on PCR tests. We would need a blood tests for more accuracy to ensure no historical infection took place. This also doesn't compare vaccinated infected vs unvaccinated infections. It's a decent data point but not conclusive.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0) > We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection. and they include a brief literature review: > Our findings are consistent with those from a case-control study of 884,828 persons receiving the BNT162b2 vaccine in Israel21. That study observed an association with myocarditis in the 42 days following vaccination (risk ratio of 3.24), but no association with pericarditis or cardiac arrhythmia. Two further studies from Israel add to our observations by providing clinical review to ensure robust case ascertainment22 and reporting investigations and outcomes in individual patients with myocarditis following the BNT162b2 vaccine23. Witberg et al.21,22 observed a small excess in events 3–5 days following the second dose of BNT162b2 vaccine, but most were mild presentations and just one classified as fulminant22. Mevorach et al. observed an incidence ratio of 5.34 for myocarditis in 5,442,696 persons following BNT162b2, although this was attenuated when restricted to the 136 definite and probable cases of myocarditis23. Risk of myocarditis was restricted to males under the age of 40 years and only observed following the second dose. Similarly, two studies from the United States have reported an incident rate ratio of 2.7 for myocarditis in the 10 days following the second dose of both mRNA vaccines24 and an estimated 6.3 and 10.1 extra cases per million doses in the 1- to 21-day period following the first and second dose of both mRNA vaccines, respectively, in those younger than 40 years25. And conclude: > In summary, this population-based study quantifies for the first time the risk of several rare cardiac adverse events associated with three COVID-19 vaccines as well as SARS-CoV-2 infection. Vaccination for SARS-CoV-2 in adults was associated with a small increase in the risk of myocarditis within a week of receiving the first dose of both adenovirus and mRNA vaccines, and after the second dose of both mRNA vaccines. By contrast, SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with a substantial increase in the risk of hospitalization or death from myocarditis, pericarditis and cardiac arrhythmia.

robomartin 4y ago

> You're not angered that you were advised to give this to a 15 year old with no upside even after he was hospitalized for 2 weeks as a result?! I am being as honest as I can be with regards to our feelings on this. I can't say we are angry about that incident at all. I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot. Frankly, I don't even remember if the data was available (I do think it was, BTW). Remember, at the time, only about 700 cases. Of course, the outcome might have had something to do with the lack of negative emotions. I can probably admit our position today would be massively different had we had to face a range of negative outcomes post-hospitalization. These can range from life-long afflictions to death.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Shocka1 4y ago
I'm happy for you that you aren't mad, as there is no reason to wear the burden of anger in your life. At a young age I had pericarditis (idiopathic), which developed into both myocarditis and pericarditis. I've now had pericarditis off and on for over 10 years now and hope that it never comes back for your child. "I think I can say we are not happy about not having been provided with all of the information before he got his shot." You pretty much hit the nail on the head here and is my biggest gripe about this whole fiasco. I'm not sure about your situation now, but if this disease recurs and you feel like your kid's heart doctor has no idea what they are talking about, I recommend either Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic. I don't have Facebook, but I've been told there are many support groups for this disease as well there. Good luck to you, and my prayers go out to you and your family.

TheCoelacanth 4y ago

"No upside" is not accurate. Hospitalizations from COVID are quite rare in 15 year olds, but not remotely as rare as these cases of myocarditis.

incrudible 4y ago
What data do you base this on? According to QCovid.org, a 19yo old white male had annualized odds of hospitalization of less than 1 in 10,000 given the prevalence of the third and second COVID waves in the UK. That is less than the incidence of Myocarditis from the vaccine in that age group.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

wellthatsawrap1 4y ago