6 ms·

> My personal goal is at least 100 applications before seriously considering pivoting to something else. I don't think I have especially cool resume or anythin

> My personal goal is at least 100 applications before seriously considering pivoting to something else. I don't think I have especially cool resume or anything, nor do I have extremely many years in the industry as well, but I'd never consider applying for 100 different companies. I don't even know deeply about 100 companies I think, which is something I learn about a company before even considering applying to it. I think I've applied to about 5 different full-time positions over the years and I have been in about 10 full-time positions in the same time, 5 of those applied to and the others was companies "applying" to me instead. Then bunch of consulting and freelancing gigs in-between.

anon50118810 4y ago
No one knows deeply about 100 companies, especially 100 random companies scattered around the U.S. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.
- abhaynayar 4y ago
  Maybe that is the problem. Instead of applying to 100 companies out of desperation, if a candidate practices and develops specific marketable skills and targets specific roles, he only needs to apply to 10 companies that he knows deeply and are in tune with his skills. The law of reversed effort — When you focus on your own skills and self-worth instead of desperately pursuing random externalities, externalities that are actually suited to you in turn get attracted to you strongly. So then even if you apply to 10 companies, the number is low but the expected value of an offer is higher than if you applied to 100 companies the other way.
  - TedKroft 4y ago
    That sounds nice, but it can be a bad really limiting to have high expectations of only getting jobs that initially appeal to you for multiple reasons. 1. Time spent researching or preparing for a job doesn't guarantee you anything. 2. Sometimes the most appealing jobs are the most competitive, meaning you might have less of a chance of getting them and they might have worse comp or quality of life 3. Some positions on websites are already filled or cancelled. 4. Not everything on a job listing is accurate and you can only get a limited sense of what the job will be like after talking to people during the interview process. Definitely play up your strengths and be selective and discriminating. I've got some jobs through network and some through scattershot, but never have got an offer after sending out only 10 applications. Most companies don't even respond.
    - anon50118810 4y ago
      Yes, people at the typical small or midsized company you found on LinkedIn know they are not really special and are not going to be fooled or won over that you redesigned your resume just for them or that you talk about how inspired you are by this company you just found out about today. You either are a match or you aren't. If your work experience is 90% backend and 10% frontend, it won't make any difference to tweak and fudge your resume to make you look like a frontend developer. It will come out in the end anyway. Better to focus on applying for the backend jobs that you do qualify for, or if you really want those frontend jobs, try to make your case in the cover letter or in some other way. It should also be emphasized that jobs at famous organizations that you might legitimately have heard of already or been inspired by are going to be very competitive even if the salary is low and you far exceed the posted requirements.
      - abhaynayar 4y ago
        > fooled or won over that you redesigned your resume just for them > talk about how inspired you are by this company you just found out about today > tweak and fudge your resume to make you look like a frontend developer Did not say fool anyone by redesigning your resume. Did not say apply to a company you just found out today. Did not say fudge your resume to a different role. Your interpretation -- "that one should make oneself look different from who they are", is the polar opposite of what I actually implied. I literally wrote practice and develop your own skills. Fudging your resume to appease a company is the epitome of desperation -- something I strongly advocated against. I don't know whether the expected return is better by focusing on yourself or by applying to as many companies as possible. I believe in the former, but it could go either way based on a number of factors based in reality. However, I only replied because I was surprised at the gross misinterpretation of my comment.
        anon50118810 4y ago
        Often when people talk about customizing applications, they mean rewriting your existing resume in a way that mirrors the job listing but without actually lying. Whether this is worth it or not depends on the situation, for example I understand this is really useful for U.S. federal jobs, but I don't think it's very useful for places where a recruiter skims resumes for basic fit and then passes them directly to a technical hiring manager. However it sounds like you were talking more about personal growth, which I misunderstood. When you're unemployed and in the middle of a job search, you need to work with what you have, meaning you should make a resume that emphasizes your existing skills and apply to jobs that will value them. At the mid/senior-level no one will care much about any new skill you only know from a book or a Udemy course, so learning new skills is not a good use of time. At best you can hone your current skills, which might help in the interview but not with the resume, where the biggest drop-off happens.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  Shotgunning resumes does not work. You need to tailor each application to the employer. Most importantly that means finding someone at the company who will vouch for you.
imhoguy 4y ago
This. If that is 100x clicks on Apply button on jobs portal, then no wonder the result is mediocre. Tailoring CV to a role, looking for some insider friends to let then collect the referal bonus... that takes time but is much more effective to put foot in the door.
- kurtreed 4y ago
  This what?
- atraac 4y ago
  Sure let me "tailor my CV" to a role just to get ghosted or offered laughable salary. I'm just gonna make friends of random people from that company that don't know me, presumably by cold approaching them via LinkedIn? Lol
  - anon50118810 4y ago
    Yes, it's hard to imagine being on a team where my direct coworkers are vouching for random people who contacted them because they're trying to get a referral bonus. If someone contacted me like that, I'd direct them to the careers page and then let someone in the hiring path know. Very strange.
  - sefrost 4y ago
    Tailoring your CV, in my experience, simply means looking at the job description and then rearranging your achievements so that the things they are specifically asking for are mentioned at the top. Also make sure you use the same language as them and specifically mention the exact technology they put in the job description. I do this, then I make a copy of the CV as MyName_CompanyName.pdf in my Documents directory so I can refer back to it if I get an interview. I've never struggled to get an interview with this method and I'm pretty sure I'm one of the mediocre people on HN.
    - type-r 4y ago
      I second this. I find that the investment here is well worth it -- in general it takes me 15-30 minutes to read the job description, read up a bit on the company itself, and adjust the resume. I haven't personally tried the spray-and-pray approach. It's also not something that requires a bunch of mental energy, so you can do it in the late evening when your brain is tired from the full day anyway.

anon50118810 4y ago

No one knows deeply about 100 companies, especially 100 random companies scattered around the U.S. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

abhaynayar 4y ago
Maybe that is the problem. Instead of applying to 100 companies out of desperation, if a candidate practices and develops specific marketable skills and targets specific roles, he only needs to apply to 10 companies that he knows deeply and are in tune with his skills. The law of reversed effort — When you focus on your own skills and self-worth instead of desperately pursuing random externalities, externalities that are actually suited to you in turn get attracted to you strongly. So then even if you apply to 10 companies, the number is low but the expected value of an offer is higher than if you applied to 100 companies the other way.
- TedKroft 4y ago
  That sounds nice, but it can be a bad really limiting to have high expectations of only getting jobs that initially appeal to you for multiple reasons. 1. Time spent researching or preparing for a job doesn't guarantee you anything. 2. Sometimes the most appealing jobs are the most competitive, meaning you might have less of a chance of getting them and they might have worse comp or quality of life 3. Some positions on websites are already filled or cancelled. 4. Not everything on a job listing is accurate and you can only get a limited sense of what the job will be like after talking to people during the interview process. Definitely play up your strengths and be selective and discriminating. I've got some jobs through network and some through scattershot, but never have got an offer after sending out only 10 applications. Most companies don't even respond.
  - anon50118810 4y ago
    Yes, people at the typical small or midsized company you found on LinkedIn know they are not really special and are not going to be fooled or won over that you redesigned your resume just for them or that you talk about how inspired you are by this company you just found out about today. You either are a match or you aren't. If your work experience is 90% backend and 10% frontend, it won't make any difference to tweak and fudge your resume to make you look like a frontend developer. It will come out in the end anyway. Better to focus on applying for the backend jobs that you do qualify for, or if you really want those frontend jobs, try to make your case in the cover letter or in some other way. It should also be emphasized that jobs at famous organizations that you might legitimately have heard of already or been inspired by are going to be very competitive even if the salary is low and you far exceed the posted requirements.
    - abhaynayar 4y ago
      > fooled or won over that you redesigned your resume just for them > talk about how inspired you are by this company you just found out about today > tweak and fudge your resume to make you look like a frontend developer Did not say fool anyone by redesigning your resume. Did not say apply to a company you just found out today. Did not say fudge your resume to a different role. Your interpretation -- "that one should make oneself look different from who they are", is the polar opposite of what I actually implied. I literally wrote practice and develop your own skills. Fudging your resume to appease a company is the epitome of desperation -- something I strongly advocated against. I don't know whether the expected return is better by focusing on yourself or by applying to as many companies as possible. I believe in the former, but it could go either way based on a number of factors based in reality. However, I only replied because I was surprised at the gross misinterpretation of my comment.
      - anon50118810 4y ago
        Often when people talk about customizing applications, they mean rewriting your existing resume in a way that mirrors the job listing but without actually lying. Whether this is worth it or not depends on the situation, for example I understand this is really useful for U.S. federal jobs, but I don't think it's very useful for places where a recruiter skims resumes for basic fit and then passes them directly to a technical hiring manager. However it sounds like you were talking more about personal growth, which I misunderstood. When you're unemployed and in the middle of a job search, you need to work with what you have, meaning you should make a resume that emphasizes your existing skills and apply to jobs that will value them. At the mid/senior-level no one will care much about any new skill you only know from a book or a Udemy course, so learning new skills is not a good use of time. At best you can hone your current skills, which might help in the interview but not with the resume, where the biggest drop-off happens.
HDThoreaun 4y ago
Shotgunning resumes does not work. You need to tailor each application to the employer. Most importantly that means finding someone at the company who will vouch for you.

imhoguy 4y ago

This. If that is 100x clicks on Apply button on jobs portal, then no wonder the result is mediocre. Tailoring CV to a role, looking for some insider friends to let then collect the referal bonus... that takes time but is much more effective to put foot in the door.

kurtreed 4y ago
This what?
atraac 4y ago
Sure let me "tailor my CV" to a role just to get ghosted or offered laughable salary. I'm just gonna make friends of random people from that company that don't know me, presumably by cold approaching them via LinkedIn? Lol
- anon50118810 4y ago
  Yes, it's hard to imagine being on a team where my direct coworkers are vouching for random people who contacted them because they're trying to get a referral bonus. If someone contacted me like that, I'd direct them to the careers page and then let someone in the hiring path know. Very strange.
- sefrost 4y ago
  Tailoring your CV, in my experience, simply means looking at the job description and then rearranging your achievements so that the things they are specifically asking for are mentioned at the top. Also make sure you use the same language as them and specifically mention the exact technology they put in the job description. I do this, then I make a copy of the CV as MyName_CompanyName.pdf in my Documents directory so I can refer back to it if I get an interview. I've never struggled to get an interview with this method and I'm pretty sure I'm one of the mediocre people on HN.
  - type-r 4y ago
    I second this. I find that the investment here is well worth it -- in general it takes me 15-30 minutes to read the job description, read up a bit on the company itself, and adjust the resume. I haven't personally tried the spray-and-pray approach. It's also not something that requires a bunch of mental energy, so you can do it in the late evening when your brain is tired from the full day anyway.