4 ms·

This is so completely normal in these industries that it is a non-headline. Companies that have so much cash they can employ 100K+ developers on top of goodnes

This is so completely normal in these industries that it is a non-headline. Companies that have so much cash they can employ 100K+ developers on top of goodness knows how many designers, PMs, POs etc. of course they hire and fire. They can afford to offer above-average conditions when the markets need it and everyone goes flocking there only to be surprised when their job is taken away at the next point the shareholders are bothered about ROI. If you want to ride the unicorns and take the risk, that's fine, but there are plenty of people around the world who have far fewer choices with their work and are paid far less so I don't feel too bad that someone's Christmas might be not as expected. If you want job security, get a job somewhere that isn't trying to earn their next billion, where you can make a difference, where you are appreciated and where work/life balance means something. I expect you would feel much better :-)

datavirtue 4y ago
Wish I could figure out how to do an Ask HN for non-profit hiring. My previous attempts failed.
- jpk2f2 4y ago
  Non-profits do layoffs too, unfortunately. In some ways it's almost worse as there's less padding before they're losing money.
  - micro_cam 4y ago
    Grant funded non profit research is at least pretty predictable. You know you are on a 2-5 year grant and you can help apply for the next one.
- nobodyandproud 4y ago
  Try government. Though I had no luck finding government jobs, because the red tape is ridiculous.
  - kerkeslager 4y ago
    I have no direct experience with this, but my understanding from some friends who work in (US) government, is that it's an investment of time: you work through the initial red tape, and you get unparalleled job security.
    - mrtranscendence 4y ago
      And it doesn't even pay as badly as I think people expect, necessarily. It's not SV money but it's reasonable.
  - sqeaky 4y ago
    If you know C++ or are Near Omaha, can pass a background check. I know some people that are hiring.
    - nobodyandproud 4y ago
      Sadly not (Omaha and C++).
- dougmwne 4y ago
  It is very simple. Pick a nonprofit that has an exciting cause. Go on their website and look for openings. It’s going to need to be a very large org to have developers on staff as almost all IT needs typically are heavily outsourced to vendors. You can also work for one of these vendors. Expected to leave massive amounts of salary on the table. You could be talking 50-150k less.
ramraj07 4y ago
Which American company employs 100k+ DEVRLOPERS?
- tootie 4y ago
  100K is a lot, but JP Morgan has like 50K and they are apparently still expanding aggressively.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  I'm sure in its peak IBM employed way more than that including their India and China teams. EDIT: found a source, 130K in india in 2017... == 33% of workforce "Today, the company employs 130,000 people in India — about one-third of its total work force, and more than in any other country. Their work spans the entire gamut of IBM’s businesses, from managing the computing needs of global giants like AT&T and Shell to performing cutting-edge research in fields like visual search, artificial intelligence and computer vision for self-driving cars. One team is even working with the producers of Sesame Street to teach vocabulary to kindergartners in Atlanta." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/28/technology/ibm-india.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/28/technology/ibm-india.html
  - ramraj07 4y ago
    Yeah I mentioned US for that reason. If you include the Indian outsourcing shops then clearly there would be numerous. Honesty though calling them developers is a bit too much. Most of them are used as benchwarmers to inflate numbers and get deals.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      IBM is an American company.
notyourwork 4y ago
> that someone's Christmas might be not as expected. You should have sympathy for PEOPLE. Every one of the PEOPLE effected by any lay off or industry change is a person. It could be your relative, it could be you, ti could be me. Let's get out of the "I don't feel too bad for that person that's not me" and try to have compassion for fellow humans. edit: spelling typo
- coding123 4y ago
  His post did seem to have sympathy, directed more at those that have a lot less than a 200k tc.
  - fredestine 4y ago
    it really doesnt matter how much you make as long as you have a family and do not own property or have inherited wealth you are a wagie and 200k or 50k ud have loans that you cant pay when you are unemployed...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
koboll 4y ago
This comment is just silly. So you think a job at a startup is more secure? You think a job at a smaller company is more secure? BigTech layoffs might make news because they're Big but plenty of smaller companies will be laying off as the economy contracts, too. Also 99% of Amazon employees will be fine and the ones that are fired, at least on the corporate side, will find new jobs quickly because the rest of the industry is clamoring to hire ex-FAANG. Hard to see how working there is some huge risk.
P_I_Staker 4y ago
> If you want job security, get a job somewhere that isn't trying to earn their next billion, where you can make a difference, where you are appreciated and where work/life balance means something. I expect you would feel much better :-) ... What?!?!? Where is this magical place you're talking about. Small companies can be better, but they can also be much worse, and you may have less recourse. You can really hide under a rock at a big corporation for like... decades. Many of the "meaningful" jobs are low paying, and can be even more soul crushing. Teachers aren't always treated great. It's far more of a "hated by all" profession than you realize. Social work seems to be a tough racket on many fronts. You could have to do some difficult things and are almost guaranteed to see levels of despair and injustice that are difficult to bear. All that for pathetic pay, but at least you have good job security, maybe sometimes with an asterisk; so best case you're one of the lucky ones guaranteed to be poor forever. I've heard that non-profits can be incredibly toxic as well. In fact it almost seems that the "meaningful" professions are even worse, usually. There's a lot of corporate environments that are quite pleasant, have good pay and decent security. "Heart" work almost always seems like a bad bet for financial security, and work environment. Doesn't seem worth it unless you're a very specific kind of person with talent that HAS to be a part of something, so is willing to put up with almost anything; boss puts cigarettes out on your forehead to pass the time? Sounds great, I'm just excited to be making music! You will ALWAYS have 10 people tirelessly fighting for the job.

datavirtue 4y ago

Wish I could figure out how to do an Ask HN for non-profit hiring. My previous attempts failed.

jpk2f2 4y ago
Non-profits do layoffs too, unfortunately. In some ways it's almost worse as there's less padding before they're losing money.
- micro_cam 4y ago
  Grant funded non profit research is at least pretty predictable. You know you are on a 2-5 year grant and you can help apply for the next one.
nobodyandproud 4y ago
Try government. Though I had no luck finding government jobs, because the red tape is ridiculous.
- kerkeslager 4y ago
  I have no direct experience with this, but my understanding from some friends who work in (US) government, is that it's an investment of time: you work through the initial red tape, and you get unparalleled job security.
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago
    And it doesn't even pay as badly as I think people expect, necessarily. It's not SV money but it's reasonable.
- sqeaky 4y ago
  If you know C++ or are Near Omaha, can pass a background check. I know some people that are hiring.
  - nobodyandproud 4y ago
    Sadly not (Omaha and C++).
dougmwne 4y ago
It is very simple. Pick a nonprofit that has an exciting cause. Go on their website and look for openings. It’s going to need to be a very large org to have developers on staff as almost all IT needs typically are heavily outsourced to vendors. You can also work for one of these vendors. Expected to leave massive amounts of salary on the table. You could be talking 50-150k less.

ramraj07 4y ago

Which American company employs 100k+ DEVRLOPERS?

tootie 4y ago
100K is a lot, but JP Morgan has like 50K and they are apparently still expanding aggressively.
maerF0x0 4y ago
I'm sure in its peak IBM employed way more than that including their India and China teams. EDIT: found a source, 130K in india in 2017... == 33% of workforce "Today, the company employs 130,000 people in India — about one-third of its total work force, and more than in any other country. Their work spans the entire gamut of IBM’s businesses, from managing the computing needs of global giants like AT&T and Shell to performing cutting-edge research in fields like visual search, artificial intelligence and computer vision for self-driving cars. One team is even working with the producers of Sesame Street to teach vocabulary to kindergartners in Atlanta." https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/28/technology/ibm-india.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/28/technology/ibm-india.html
- ramraj07 4y ago
  Yeah I mentioned US for that reason. If you include the Indian outsourcing shops then clearly there would be numerous. Honesty though calling them developers is a bit too much. Most of them are used as benchwarmers to inflate numbers and get deals.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    IBM is an American company.

notyourwork 4y ago

> that someone's Christmas might be not as expected. You should have sympathy for PEOPLE. Every one of the PEOPLE effected by any lay off or industry change is a person. It could be your relative, it could be you, ti could be me. Let's get out of the "I don't feel too bad for that person that's not me" and try to have compassion for fellow humans. edit: spelling typo

coding123 4y ago
His post did seem to have sympathy, directed more at those that have a lot less than a 200k tc.
- fredestine 4y ago
  it really doesnt matter how much you make as long as you have a family and do not own property or have inherited wealth you are a wagie and 200k or 50k ud have loans that you cant pay when you are unemployed...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

koboll 4y ago

This comment is just silly. So you think a job at a startup is more secure? You think a job at a smaller company is more secure? BigTech layoffs might make news because they're Big but plenty of smaller companies will be laying off as the economy contracts, too. Also 99% of Amazon employees will be fine and the ones that are fired, at least on the corporate side, will find new jobs quickly because the rest of the industry is clamoring to hire ex-FAANG. Hard to see how working there is some huge risk.

P_I_Staker 4y ago

> If you want job security, get a job somewhere that isn't trying to earn their next billion, where you can make a difference, where you are appreciated and where work/life balance means something. I expect you would feel much better :-) ... What?!?!? Where is this magical place you're talking about. Small companies can be better, but they can also be much worse, and you may have less recourse. You can really hide under a rock at a big corporation for like... decades. Many of the "meaningful" jobs are low paying, and can be even more soul crushing. Teachers aren't always treated great. It's far more of a "hated by all" profession than you realize. Social work seems to be a tough racket on many fronts. You could have to do some difficult things and are almost guaranteed to see levels of despair and injustice that are difficult to bear. All that for pathetic pay, but at least you have good job security, maybe sometimes with an asterisk; so best case you're one of the lucky ones guaranteed to be poor forever. I've heard that non-profits can be incredibly toxic as well. In fact it almost seems that the "meaningful" professions are even worse, usually. There's a lot of corporate environments that are quite pleasant, have good pay and decent security. "Heart" work almost always seems like a bad bet for financial security, and work environment. Doesn't seem worth it unless you're a very specific kind of person with talent that HAS to be a part of something, so is willing to put up with almost anything; boss puts cigarettes out on your forehead to pass the time? Sounds great, I'm just excited to be making music! You will ALWAYS have 10 people tirelessly fighting for the job.